Punching Terfs

...and, at the same time, women's issues are exclusionary and triggering. It's hurtful to talk about menstruation and abortion, and anyway men have those too.

I always hope that people will see this for what it is, but I also genuinely fear that they won't.

Vestal and Collidascope

I agree, it's insane. This circular definition of the word woman is everywhere now. People saying for god's sake it's an established biological fact.

Even when the ridiculousness of it is pointed out - I identify as a plate, therefore I'm a plate.

I thought it was just a fringe element, but it's now become the prevalent TRA line.

And although there are trans allies who realise it's scientifically untenable, they still buy into it, as socially acceptable.

Why not? What harm does it do? Don't be so old fashioned. Why do you care?

Feminism is under threat.

Misogynistic men want to claim womanhood and ill informed people are supporting it.

Datun, that is nuts. It's like saying, "I identify as a lappetysquoosh," and then, when asked what a lappetysquoosh is, replying, "nothing. It doesn't mean anything."
Why the need to identify as and claim a word that has no meaning? It's dishonest because the redefining of a word so that they can apply it to themselves isn't genuine; they still want that original meaning.

I saw Goody Osbourne with a TERF

Exactly this.

How anyone can look at that t-shirt and not just fail to see that it's a gleeful brag about a male bodied person being violent to women, but to then actually defend the person wearing it, is utterly beyond me.

What if it said "I punch uppity women"? What then? How about "I punch feminists?". Would that be OK or not? What about a woman wearing an "I punch misogynists" t-shirt - what if Julie Bindel went to a feminist event wearing that. Can you even imagine the internet meltdown?

and more of a deliberate attack on women

I agree. It's very worrying.

Datun, that's utterly ridiculous, they even admit it? I despair.

Why take away any and all meaning from a word that has been always used for people with a certain anatomy, when you don't even have another meaning to replace the old meaning with?

You don't need a word for what your personality is. We have words for the most important personality traits, and that has worked fine for thousands of years.

OneFlew, brilliant post. Way to articulate how I am feeling now.

It's coming across as less and less of a delusion, less even than wanting to be right-on, and more of a deliberate attack on women.

I saw Goody Osbourne with a TERF

I cross posted with you and illustrated your point vestal!

I can't imagine that anyone who is actively pro-Trump would have been left-inclined without postmodernism. However, as a centrist, swing voter myself I definitely find myself getting frustrated and even put off by the left's ability to focus on minor issues such as let's all use the right pronouns rather than tackling the real problems.

Not just that, but despite the left's ability to think itself really "right on" it has the distinct whiff of misogyny which, coupled with their claims to really care about everyone, comes across as pure hypocrisy.

Look at the pre-election thread that was checking which parties had women friendly policies - Green Party were appalling on with calling women non-men and pro-pimp policies, Lib Dems not only wanted to bring in decriminalisation but also to wipe convictions for kerb-crawling and pimping, WEP were the biggest load of crap with refusing to define women, even Corbyn had some questionable quotes about not wanting to criminalise people (pimps and punters) and moving towards a more civilised society.

I think if you're cynical enough then you start to think they're all as bad as each other, or thinking that whilst one party won't fix inequality, at least they're not going to bloody mindedly take away hard fought for rights in an attempt to appease yet another underdog.

In fact the trans agenda only works if you are willing to be bigoted towards women, as in a complex wholesale failure to listen and engage with anything women might have to say on the subject.

In fact, it only works if you refuse to think.

Many genderist women I have spoken to hold the opinions that

a) being a woman has nothing to do with liking pink, dresses or high heels, or wanting to do housework or wanting to have children.

but also that

b) being a woman has nothing to do with having two X chromosomes and being born with female reproductive organs.

Which leaves them without any working definition of "woman".

I suppose the more outspokenly misogynist male trans are more consistent as in they do admit that to them, womanhood is about high heels, dresses and make up.

as in a complex wholesale failure to listen and engage with anything women might have to say on the subject.

I shouldn't do this to myself, because it not only boils my blood, it depresses me, but as clicked on Dervels post I had literally read this just before.

An issue is the language employed around differing opinions. People argue that the distinction that certain language is the same as actual physical violence. If that is the direction of travel we're heading in acts of physical violence become a legitimate defence for opinions and words you find offensive.

Furthmore I don't like the use of the word bigotry in a modern context, it used to mean not listening (particularly to groups and people one believes inferior, and thus not worth listening to). Now it just means to disagree with someone.

I've been here awhile now, but I've seen thread after thread of analysis of the radtrans perspective and you can't be genuinely critical without engaging with the ideas. I struggle to find a terf who has actually been guilty of bigotry. In fact you have to understand the arguments to see the potential ramifications for women. In fact the trans agenda only works if you are willing to be bigoted towards women, as in a complex wholesale failure to listen and engage with anything women might have to say on the subject.

Pretty much the only thing holding it back in the US is the religious right and we have no equivalent (something for which I'm thankful in all other circumstances).

I wonder whether the TRAs are responsible for Trump.

While I personally would have voted for Clinton despite it being very unlikely she would oppose the stripping away of women's rights via trans ideology, I wonder whether some people (women) who were undecided otherwise voted for Trump because they had first-hand experienced their daughters being forced to be naked in front of boys in changing rooms.

(Women's shelters and prisons are probably of no interest to conservative women as they live in the illusion neither they or their daughters could ever end up in one of those. But the schools, they will notice.)

Hadley Freeman has commented on it too now.

It's more important to be seen to be on the right side of an issue without realising that one can't simultaneously be pro-woman AND pro-trans

Sadly that is largely the case now. But it didn't used to be like that. People have transitioned since the 60s and 'lived as' the opposite sex before that without any major problems until the last decade or so when the extremist TRA position emerged that TW are literally women. Of course, not all TW believe that but those who don't are bullied too.

Eventually I think the movement will eat itself because gay men will walk up to the gay eugenics aspect and the interests of autogynophiles and 'Truscum" (horrible TRA term for trans people who believe that only people with gender dysphoria are truly trans) will increasingly diverge. A few people may even be concerned about women's safety and privacy. But that won't happen until huge damage has been done to gay kids and women.

I really worry about what will happen when it truly takes hold here. Pretty much the only thing holding it back in the US is the religious right and we have no equivalent (something for which I'm thankful in all other circumstances). We are going to go the same way as Canada and have bearded rapists in our women's shelters

Ugh, it's very 'she's a witch so she would say that,' isn't it?

It really is a witch hunt.

It has everything needed for a proper witch hunt.

In some parts of Africa, men believe that witches can steal their penises. Of course the penis of the men thus afflicted is still there, but they insist that it is just an illusion.

... rather similar to the trans who claim that despite their whole body being very clearly male, they are truly women. Or vice versa.

Ugh, it's very 'she's a witch so she would say that,' isn't it?

The Helen Lewis twitter thread is so depressing. All those apologists for male violence convinced that they are the decent ones.