Is feminism really about equality?

Most of the people I see carping on about how Feminists hate men and how men have it so hard are MRAs or their handmaidens (aka The Cool Girls).

I used to spend a lot of time on International Women's Day tweeting resources for whatever the theme was that year. So MVAWAG, discrimination against mothers in the workplace whatever. Until an MRA Pile on where they bleated for yonks about how I didn't care about men. Except that I (and a group of feminist friends) spend International Men's Day tweeting about mental health resources for men, stats about survival rates for prostrate cancer, CALM (the mental health charity for men - hey guess who set it up? women) etc.

Feminism is concerned about how in the past men have been discriminated against in child custody cases. In part because we recognise that keeping us pregnant, barefoot and in the kitchen was how men kept women under control. Well, guess what? Children deserve to have both parents on the scene. We campaign for paternal leave. Oh boy do we do that. And guess what: a lot of men i know are really happy to have it, often want more. But a large chunk of men I've talked to about it are all about paying it lip service - some boast about putting in extra hours at work to avoid the stuff at home.

What I've encountered from the MRA types, as well as the #NotAllMen, is an unwillingness to engage. To realise that if you want something done (women's shelters, anyone? how did we get them?) you have to do it yourself. But the MRAs want us to do that for them too ("bah, there's always a march for Women's Day when do we get ours?" but don't like the answer "when you organise it - look, this is how we got mobilised…")

I'll willingly campaign for issues that affect men, but until I get an equal crack at promotion in the workplace ("oh i can't promote you, you have children, you won't be as loyal" - my MD to me in the middle of the night while I was pushing through sales at month end closing. Countless other examples available on request).

"The truth is men's history is more about a bunch of vain violent thieving self concerned bullying thugs and rapists, who cornered women and girls and trampled all over them for sport and to make themselves feel good."

Wow, that will need to be taken down a notch or two. It's a sound example of the kind of wild-eyed hysteria with which some men tend to associate all women (see what I did there?).

Yes, feminism is primarily concerned with equality. The contrary argument which you pose (why dont feminists support male causes; shelters, genital mutilation) is a slippery slope argument. It is dependent on the male and female identity having the same experience of the world.

For example fgm is a practice used to control a women's sexual experience. The same cannot be said about mgm. When you talk about equality you are also often addressing an injustice. A clear example would be the 1918 suffrage act which allowed some women the vote. Prior to that the injustice was that women werent thought of as capable of having the ability to make rational decisions at the polling station.

A recent example I can think of is when certain Daily newspapers suggested a racehorse should have been voted sportsperson of the year over Serena Williams. It would be inconceivable for any white male tennis player to be compared as less worthy of an award as an animal.

What I am trying to say is that feminism isnt unconcerned about men's feelings on the contrary. Feminism is concerned about morality and the development of humanity.

I think you have asked a good question, one that requires a long view of our understanding of a complex concept.

• that was meant to say the same as "men" are!

It's about woman being seen and treated as objects by men, even in (some) computer games the men are dressed in suits to look important and the woman are in bikinis and are prostitutes or strippers. Most woman have to be beautiful or half naked to be in programmes aimed mostly at men and yet the men are comfortably dressed and don't need to look like a model as they are taken as they are this is where the problem lies as men think woman are purely there for entertainment purposes when woman want to be treated as people the same as me are.

MRA - men's rights activist. Usually/often a man who thinks feminism has "gone too far" and is angered by that.

I just want to say thank you to the well informed people on MN. I came on here being “against feminism” thinking I knew it all. My previous thoughts were generated towards “who’s speaking up for the men?, I thought it was about equality?” Bla bla bla. And after reading through blogs, news articles, real people’s views and explanations, I can happily say I now understand modern day feminism! And boy am I glad I finally dared venture on to MN. However, could someone please explain to me what “MRA” means. I’m completely at a loss for what a lot of the abbreviations mean. I’ve only been on here 3 days now and just finding my feet! But hey it only took three days of reading various blogs etc to open my eyes to feminism and what real issues are there. I feel like a dummy for not seeing it before! Not sure if this will be read as I can see it’s an older post.

Here's the link.

BBC Two - No More Boys and Girls: Can Our Kids Go Gender-Free?
www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09202jz/episodes/player

Derwain, the thing is, the high percentage of men committing suicide etc is down to the way gender stereotypes prevail in society, which is partly down to the patriarchy. Ott Masculinity is a problem. Ott masculinity and femininity suits the patriarchy.

I'll direct you to the excellent documentary 'no more boys and girls on the bbc,' for a better explanation than I have time for right now as the hv is coming any minute and I've a fussy feeder/ napper.

And it used to be called the locker room.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/media/2010/jul/01/bbc-mens-hour-radio-5-live

Vicky:

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01yyclz/p01yycjm

And it used to be in radio 4 as I remember listening to it. Probably over 20 years ago mind you.

Feminism today perpetuates this narrative than all men are working together to oppress women in some banana party called "patriarchy". Feminism spouts lies about a gender pay gap and domestic abuse statistics. They need to learn the difference between wages and earnings along with how domestic abuse is handled in court (grossly in favor of women despite who's guilty). The most brainwashed of "feminists" such as @AsMenDclaredWomenTheirInferior believe that men are just violent brutes with no compassion and a barbaric disregard for women and their freedom. In reality men are just as sensitive in most cases (probably more than women in this day in age). Men are way more likely to commit suicide than women. There are only 2 men's support shelters in the US for suicidal men. Men are more likely to die at work, they suffer worse penalties/sentences than women for similar crimes. The rape statistics for men are overwhelmingly higher than women's if you include prison rape. Men almost always lose their kids in divorce settlements unless the mother is proved insane in which case conditional visitation is provided. The list goes on. Women have their struggles too but don't think for a second that men have it easy.

I have contacted the BBC many times by telephone and email, also contacted local MP who was not interested.
The BBC refuses to respond in a meaningful way saying it does not discriminate when it clearly does, to provide a service for the benifit of one sex, but not to the other is clearly discrimination and brings feminism into disrepute.
It is very sad that the only programme on the radio that is constantly.talking about equality is the only one that actually discriminates against one half of the population due to their sex.
And as it is presented by feminist it makes a mockery of what feminist are suposed to be campaigning about.
I want my son to have a voice as well as my daughter, that is equility.

Feminists don't want equality, it's about liberation from patriarchy.

How is your campaign going to get a men's hour on radio 4, Vicky? Have you been asking anyone apart from posters on MN?

Men's hour was not on radio 4.
There is no men's hour on BBC radio.
Woman's hour is the feminist voice on the BBC.
Men do not have this service.
Men are discriminated against by the BBC.
As women have this service why are they not helping men get the same.
If the feminist truly wanted equility they would, but they only want equility for themselves.

It was on radio 4.

*their.

Sorry to hear you know people who've had tough lives.

I'll direct you to the second post on this thread to answer all your questions.

I have heard that there was a men's hour programme, but it was broadcast on a station that the potential audience didn't listen to, at a time that wasn't suitable, so was doomed to fail.
Half of the audience for woman's hour broadcast on Radio 4, the nations main voice only station, at a time that is obviously suitable is men, so this is where men's hour should be.
Equality should be for everybody, but feminist do not want to hear men's voices or what there lives are like.
Some of the men in my life have had awfull experiences with health, divorce, children, suicide, work etc, but this is never discussed or given a platform as women have as feminist think only of themselves.
What harm would it do to us if men had the same rights to air there problems?.

Oh yes, and:

Vicky, my earliest memories of WH were learning about the menopause. Men don't get that. Though I'm sure I once heard a feature on WH about what men go through hormone wise in middle age.

Women's hour (mainly) talks about things that are the lived experiences of women due to their biology, which is not equal to men.

And they frequently do do things about men; specifically recently the issues around masculinity and how it's damaging for boys.

And there was a man's hour for a bit. Clearly they ran out of things to fill it as it didn't last long.

Wants to say 'so ner ner' but knows it's very immature.

Stealing that quote Bewilderness... ;)

Demanding that Feminism should be about equality for all iwas a brilliant strategy of the patriarchal establishments that turned feminism into a marketing tool to sell things to women.