Some questions about feminism from a Muslim.

Interesting questions, OP

Am mulling a few thoughts

Stateless - I was raised a Catholic and have struggled with that in terms of feminism for most of my life.

Like you, I do believe that men and women are intrinsically different in some ways (by no means all). Some of it is biological, I think, otherwise how and why did it become manifest in all cultures. Equality does not have to mean we are the same. I embrace how being female gives me different strengths and perspectives to DH, for instance. It is an important part of who I am.

Forgive me if you believe my interpretation of the Koran is inaccurate. I can only take the words on the page on face value and as I understood it, the Koran is the direct word of Allah?

I think you can see men and women as intrinsically different and this is compatible with feminism yes. However, religion goes a lot further than this. It goes well beyond than the portrayal of men as predisposed protectors of women, as you mention in your OP. The patriarchal ownership and control of women are so implicit at the very core of all religions that it's impossible to sidestep this issue with any interpretation you apply to it.

OP, I totally understand the reasons why you cover up.

What I disagree with, is the cause of that. It's not your behaviour.

You have said that men will view women as sex objects (sorry I can't quite remember the exact words) and therefore, to avoid that, women cover-up.

The feminist viewpoint point is that men might view women as sex objects, but they must have the self-discipline to keep that to themselves. Completely. They need to change their behaviour since it starts and ends with them. Not make women change their behaviour in order to accommodate them.

It's akin to saying they can't help themselves. You might as well say they can fling any woman on the ground and have sex with her, because their sex drive is so overpowering that they can't help it.

But guess what, they don't do that. Largely. They manage to control themselves when it's necessary.

It is your choice.

Fine. So why are other women not making the same "choice"?

The choice to cover up only come after serious religious or cultural training, be it Islamic or Amish or whatever. Women who have not been subject to these cultures do not "choose" to wear hijab. Why?

Adalind I get where you're coming from but I dont agree. I believe that men and women are wired differently (for want of a better expression) but that it doesn't justify violence and in Islam men are told to lower their gaze and that sex outside of marriage is sinful. Women are not to be viewed as sex objects

So if women are not to be viewed as sex objects how come you have to cover up and change your behaviour to stop them? In saying they can't help it you're excusing them and accepting responsibility for their sexism.

Princess I'm not hostile to Islam at all, I have Muslim relatives on one side. But there really is no evidence at all that men and women are wired differently. It's socialisation and culture that teaches people so.

I don't agree that dressing modestly doesn't apply to men. There's a lot of controversy in Belgium and France over the rule they generally have in swimming pools that men should wear speedo-style swimming costumes rather than shorts, which causes problems for Muslim men. I accept that this isn't the same as covering your hair, except for Bedouins maybe.

I was thinking about public appearance and people being treated equally. So in the UK I have heard kids being treated differently based on whether they have rich parents who can afford loads of expensive fashionable clothes as a reason for school uniform. All the same (uniform!) hence hopefully all treated equally. If, as I suspect, people treat people differently based on their age and physical attractiveness, then you could argue that uniform clothing and concealing level of attractiveness (no make-up, uniform hairstyles, or veils) would lead to more equal treatment (and communist china and mao suits). The argument then is why women are so often the ones required to cover their hair or faces whereas men are not? So it's not covered or uncovered, it's why women do wear the hijab, yet men don't. For example, I don't have such an issue with sikhism where i know some women wear head coverings as well as men. So the question really isn't comparing "western"/atheist/christian women with other women, but why women within a particular culture do things differently compared to men in the same culture (and usually in a way that gives them less freedom of choice or movement). Which then encompasses make-up and shaving, high heels and various restrictive or revealing clothing, plastic surgery, historical face covering in ancient greece (only prostitutes went out uncovered), to chinese foot-binding, along with various religions who treat women and men very differently. It's all part of the same issue, why men generally are fit to be seen and act in public, whilst "their" women are not................

If (insert clothing or practice of choice here) is so great, why aren't men demanding to do/wear it as well?

So on the hottest day of the year I am interviewing a girl of 16 in a hijab, long coat and gloves this is her choice? Her father, who is accompanying her is is an open necked loose shirt.

Hmmm religion or culture?

I think this kind of behaviour comes naturally to a lot of men and they will only stop it if they choose to or if they don't find the woman sexually attractive anymore

That's where Islam diverges from feminism.
I disagree that men can't help sexualising women. Society teaches men that women are sexual objects available for their entitled gratification which is gross and wrong but not inevitable. Once again, your worldview assumes that male violence towards women is inevitable.

Google the male gaze, OP. Then come back and explain why if people are to judged on word and deed, not appearance, why men do not wear the hijab, other than that it is a value system with the male gaze - highly sexist model - embedded.

If men as a class stopped raping women as a class then men as a class would not have to protect women as a class. The protection racket is precisely that: a racket.

although men and women are not viewed as the same, one is not better than the other

The problem with this is that it presupposes that women are innately predisposed to home making, child rearing and servitude, and that men are predisposed to earn money and have careers.
Realistically, lots of men are rubbish at negotiating the world of work, selfish with their money, lazy etc. Also lots of men could be nurturing and wonderful at raising children, but under Islamic views of family they aren't allowed.
Likewise women may have lots to contribute to the world through careers and may not be suited to home making at all. But under Islamic family norms they don't get to reach their full potential.

Islam upholds and validates the idea that women and men should have separate spheres and that women need protection from men/the world/themselves.

To enshrine the idea of women needing a male protector in social norms is to accept the belief that male violence against women is inevitable.

I agree with many of the previous responses. Assassinated has explained the 'free choice' issue well. People aren't saying you're stupid and brainwashed, but your choice is made within the context of your culture and community. I shave my legs and underarms in summer; I could say it's my free choice and preference but I know that my preference is influenced by the societal expectations of western culture and I accept that in going along with it I'm perpetuating and normalising it. You named the problem yourself in admitting that men treat you better when wearing hijab. Why do you think that might be? There is no acceptable reason.

I think some people struggle to think you can be a religious feminist because so many religious texts refer to women as inferior to men. Women are encouraged to serve/obey their husbands.

Another thing which bothers me is that in some religions you cannot pray or enter the place of worship if you are menstruating because you are seen as impure.

On the other hand I do think it's important for women to be able to make decisions for themselves. You should have a choice in whether you choose to cover your hair. I was so surprised when I saw my friend who wore a hijab every day without hers. She looked like a completely different person as silly as that sounds.

I'm definitely not an expert on any of these matters so it's interesting to read other's opinions.

Today 17:57 StatelessPrincess

49281730209a We don't have to, and it's only one of many reasons why a woman might choose to wear it. But I've experienced life with and without wearing hijab and there is a huge difference in the way I have been treated, and as prefer the treatment I get when I wear it, its one of my main reasons for doing so.

To me, this is the problem with the conflict arising from being a feminist trying to adhere to dress codes for religious purposes (in this case).

The problem is the way men treat you. Your cure is to wear certain clothing. The feminist cure would be to stop them treating you that way irrespective of what you wear.

I'm a Muslim woman and I've been told I can't be a feminist and practise my religion

One word- Khadija

I personally believe that all monotheism is inherently misogynistic at its core otherwise it wouldn't be so easy to interpret it in ways that require the subjugation and punishment of women. I find it interesting that one of the markers of religious extremism is harsher and harsher rules for women especially around their sexuality and reproductive capacity. This is incompatible with liberation from oppression as far as I am concerned. However, I also think the world is as it is so I will not tell anyone that they can't be a feminist if they're religious because that would be stupid and counterproductive.

As to hijab, I actually view it more in the vein of whether or not one chooses to shave one's body hair. There is nothing inherently wrong in any of those things but the social pressures involved should be looked at.

"But I've experienced life with and without wearing hijab and there is a huge difference in the way I have been treated, and as prefer the treatment I get when I wear it, its one of my main reasons for doing so."

My issue with that's is that that is basically accepting that it's ok that you're treated better with it...

Anything that regards women's views as less valuable than men's or blames them for the violent actions of men or denies them autonomy over their own bodies is not feminist.
I get very uncomfortable seeing women being expected to cover up when men do not. Or being denied abortions or birth control.