Aibu to think rape is not merely about power and sometimes is just about sex?

I certainly haven't called you a rape apologist. You are entitled to frame rape in whatever way makes sense to you. But I believe it's wrong to say that rape isn't about power. It is.

"I think it's a semantic issue"

A semantic issue that made me go years before being able to admit to myself that certain experiences I had had were in actual fact, rape.
Which I found damaging. Hence why this is an important issue for me. And I see no harm in recognising the two different motivations either.

If in that moment he continues and he rapes the woman, he chose to put his desire for sex before the woman's right to body autonomy. If he didn't think or know that he had the power to do that then he would have done what most men do and he would have stopped and respected the woman.

So while yes, he is using power to get sex, he isn't actually getting sex. He is committing rape.

YY. Exactly this.

Sexual intercourse and rape consist of the same physical acts.
So yeah, when a perpetrator penetrates a woman with his penis, he is having sexual intercourse by raping her. And she is having sexual intercourse against her will, in other words, being raped.

"Poor men. Being so fucking misunderstood."
I have no idea where you've gotten that from, rock. No one here has had any sympathy for men.

I'm honestly really upset that I'm being viewed as a rape apologist for recognising that the rapes I have experienced have had these two differing motivations on the part of the perpetrators.

There is a definite sense that some people feel that people shouldn't say that rape is always about power. I think it's a semantic issue and that it is important to acknowledge the intrinsic role of power in the act of rape.

I'm not ignoring it. I don't think it's as relevant as you do, scrumple.

Scrumple was involved in a direct exchange and responding to my point. The point is that I disagree what is more harmful and I won't be emotionally blackmailed over it.

So a man and a woman are together and the man wants sex but at some point the woman says no. The man does not want to be a rapist but he still wants sex.

If in that moment he continues and he rapes the woman, he chose to put his desire for sex before the woman's right to body autonomy. If he didn't think or know that he had the power to do that then he would have done what most men do and he would have stopped and respected the woman.

So while yes, he is using power to get sex, he isn't actually getting sex. He is committing rape.

At that point I don't actually care what his motivation was nor what his opinion is of it now.

Tbh this thread is beginning to disgust me.

Poor men. Being so fucking misunderstood.

If a man doesn't want to be lumped into the rapist category then it's pretty simple, don't commit rape. Rape is always about power because it always involves a man asserting his power. His motivation does not matter.

"You don't get to ride roughshod over my feelings with your personal view any more than I do."
But I'm not. I acknowledge that some rapes are about power. That's respecting your feelings, and experiences
Whereas you're telling me that rape is always about power as an end goal, which contradicts some of my experiences.

The point I was trying to make is that sex is not rape. Gratifying sexual desires is only legitimate where there is consent. Overriding someone's will is an act of power,

"It's a choice."

And sometimes it is a choice fuelled by power or sadism. And sometimes it is a choice fuelled by sexual desire.

In both cases, it requires entitlement and ability. In both cases it is wrong (obviously.)

But the motivations are different. One does it in order to hurt a person, because they can and hurting people gets them off. The other does it in order to take what they believe they are sexually entitled to.

You can frame it any way you like, obviously. I am arguing an objective point which may or may not be correct. And I believe it's harmful not to consider that rape is always an act of power.

You don't get to ride roughshod over my feelings with your personal view any more than I do.

Did you see my analogy? What do we consider is a reasonable sexual desire that isn't about power? Strangling women clearly isn't. But it can be a sexual desire for some men. I did that to point out the absurdity. Rape is a moral transgression. It's a choice.

So you feel it is harmful for women to accurately frame their rape experiences, and perpetrators' motives, Venus? That's really depressing, actually. To be told that recognising the differences in the motives of the men who have raped me is somehow harmful to women, when in fact it was being told that rape is always about power that harmed me.

(And I have never denied the role of power.)

"But you are trying to downplay it in certain scenarios which just isn't acceptable."

How is anyone downplaying rape? Talking about differing motivations behind perpetrators actions is not downplaying it at all.

I'm sorry I disagree with you and personally feel it is more harmful to frame certain rapes as being about sex without considering the power inherent in the act.

"Saying that sometimes it is just about sex only provides another excuse for men who rape.

No it doesn't. Saying that it is always about power makes men for whom it was not about power, (and their victims,) unable to identify it as rape.

"Sex is not rape. Rape is rape. At the moment things turn the act is no longer sex and is now rape. So while it may have began as sex, it ended in rape and rape is always about power."

No it isn't.

There is a difference between using power to gain what one wants, (sex,) and something being " about" power as an end goal.

I'm not denying anyone's experiences. I'm not denying that power is not used to commit rape, nor denying that it is often the end goal. I am merely saying that in my experience it is harmful to frame rape as being purely about power.

But you are trying to downplay it in certain scenarios which just isn't acceptable.

Power is not physical violence. It is not aggressive or in your face. It is a calm and measured knowledge that he is in control and that the woman is merely a thing to be used for his pleasure.

Saying that sometimes it is just about sex only provides another excuse for men who rape. Sex is not rape. Rape is rape. At the moment things turn the act is no longer sex and is now rape. So while it may have began as sex, it ended in rape and rape is always about power.

I didn't deny your point, I said it was an issue of semantics.