Aibu to think rape is not merely about power and sometimes is just about sex?

I am not making anything up.

You keep coming up with these scenarios where somehow a man rapes because he "just wants sex" and none of them are about just wanting sex. A teenage boy who just wants sex but goes on to rape because he believes girls are nymphomaniacs still feels entitled and he knows he holds power.

Men are socialised into that. They are socialised into believing that men are superior to women.

IMO taking the word power out only minimises the shit women have to put up with.

Saying that men don't want to admit they are rapists and that they would realise they are if only power was out of the equation is ridiculous. Ffs give men credit too. They are not idiots guided by their dicks no matter how much we peddle that myth. They all have choices, and in every single rape they have chosen to exercise the power that men have over women. Every single one.

I am pissing you off by saying you are wrong?

Ok then.

Aibu to think rape is not merely about power and sometimes is just about sex?

The question is asking if rape is ever "just" about sex.

The answer is no.

Not even for a teenage boy who believes girls want it. Lack of educating oneself is never an excuse.

If there are men out there that would be horrified to discover they are rapists then good. They are still rapists though. Just the same way that a murderer is still a murderer no matter how many times they say sorry.

I haven't aimed anything at the OP of this thread. But if pointing out the dangerous and disturbing nature of what is being proposed on this thread hurts you I am not sure what you would like me to say about that.

Rape is never OK and there is never a "lesser" type. Even if that is not what you think you are doing, it is the message you are sending out.

If there's three types of recognised rape and one of them is an explicit manifestation of power and motivated by power, in the other two power is still an intrinsic part of a man's ability to commit rape. He might be motivated by anger at his wife who didn't get his dinner on the table when he gut through the door, but the rape is a punishment, and you need power in order to punish someone.

Whereas you're telling me that rape is always about power as an end goal,
That might be whats caused this entire misunderstanding. No one has claimed power is the end goal of a power rape.

Power, Anger and Sadistic are the three recognised types of rape, as they describe the characteristic of the assault.
It is not a reason to stop educating people about consent.

Your faces and your calling out of other posters until you realised we had been raped too is sickening.

Your insistence that rape and sexual intercourse is literally the same thing, while it may be factually correct, is reductive and is a slap in the face.

I can be as pragmatic as the next person, but there are some things that just do not need to be reduced in this way. I would expect it in a court of law, I do not expect it on a feminism forum.

I was not personal until you tried to dismiss my view and those of others because you did not deem them suitably qualified to comment on a thread about rape.

I am trying to understand your position, though from your faces I can tell you don't think I am. But your position is damaging. And pointing to mine doesn't change that.

Entitlement is about power as well.

The men for whom it is about sex, don't.

That is not my point - my point is sexual orientation for those men is stronger than the desire to exert power in that particular way.

I have not once denied that rape is often about sexual gratification (not "sex" which implies a mutually consensual act) but argued that these acts are still acts of power. We can still educate about consent while recognising the role of dominance and power inherent in the act of rape.

It's exactly what you are doing. I explained why I think it is wrong to suggest that there are rapes with no power element. It is not true.

"Why are you determined to reduce rape to a semantic point?"

How am I doing this?

"it is bloody damaging and is ignorant to other women's experiences."

And I have found your position to be "bloody damaging" and ignorant to other women's experiences. Why can't you see that?

I haven't denied anybody's experiences, but you all seem keen to deny mine

Why are you determined to reduce rape to a semantic point? That may be how you get through your day but it is bloody damaging and is ignorant to other women's experiences.

I am shocked that you can't see that.

I have never said "rape is just about sex".

"Men do it to weaker men to exert power. But most violent men are not homosexual and find the idea repulsive and they can beat men up instead."

Exactly. The men for whom it is about power, do it. The men for whom it is about sex, don't.

" your way of framing this is suggesting that there are two levels of rape"

No. Not levels. Types. The sadistic and power motivated, and the entitled and sex motivated.

Sexual intercourse and rape are literally the exact same physical act. Rape is literally non-consenting sexual intercourse. In other words, physically it is exactly the same.

But I understand that you may have had to frame it differently in order to make sense of it

As for why it's helpful to understand the difference: men who do it for power are sociopaths who will not ever stop trying to hurt people in some way. That kind of rape can't be prevented. But the type that is sexually motivated can be prevented, via educating boys' about women's bodily autonomy, consent, eliminating misogyny, banning porn, and so on.

Why do men who commit date rapes, and marital rapes, not go out and rape the elderly, and the incapacitated?

Because those types of rapes are easier to convince oneself and others that they aren't really rape. Or the woman wanted it. Or its her wifely duty.

I am not calling you a rape apologist, but your way of framing this is suggesting that there are two levels of rape. There aren't. Rape is rape. Rape is about power. We can dress it up as being about sex all we want, but in the end it is about power.

And also, men do rape weaker men and men do beat women.

Men do it to weaker men to exert power. But most violent men are not homosexual and find the idea repulsive and they can beat men up instead.

And men do rape elderly and incapacitated women. And those men may or may not find sexual pleasure in doing so.

I am not denying that many rapes are about both power and sexual gratification, but rape is fundamentally an act of power. It is never benign or justified or understandable. I know that's not what you are saying but that's what other people may interpret the message that "some rape is just about sex" as. Hence my concern.

Sexual intercourse and rape consist of the same physical acts. So yeah, when a perpetrator penetrates a woman with his penis, he is having sexual intercourse by raping her. And she is having sexual intercourse against her will, in other words, being raped.

This is so many colours of wrong.

I have sexual intercourse with my husband.

I was raped by my rapist.

I understand that you have had to frame rape in that way in order to make sense of it. And terms of law may frame it this way. But it is whitewashing the psychology of rape and in a way it is reducing experience to mere logic.

I just cannot see how it would be helpful to understand the differences in motivation. At the point where the act becomes rape the motivation becomes irrelevant.

If it's about power, then why don't men do it to weaker men? Or beat women more instead of raping them? Why do men who commit date rapes, and marital rapes, not go out and rape the elderly, and the incapacitated?

It's because it's not always about power.

There are rapists who do the above, and for them it is about the power. But there are far, far more who merely use the power they automatically have as natal males in society, to get what it is really about: sex with the person they sexually desire.

And I do see harm not in recognising different motivations but in downplaying the power aspect.

I can't speak for you, but it is obviously very difficult to come to terms with being raped and I don't think it's generally feminist theory that is primarily to blame. I think that societal rape myths are the greater problem.