Aibu to think rape is not merely about power and sometimes is just about sex?

Only rapists know why they do it. My guess is it's complicated and not easily explained. Just saying POWER is too simplistic.
There may be a sexual element to it, may not be.
It's wrong eirher way and I'd rather people DID NOT rape others.

The part that I'm not sure about is why scrumple's experience would be easier to process if she thought power was the means, not part of the motivation.

It feels as though there is an element that has to be minimised in order to accept what happened.

That is why it feels wrong.

"That is not how anyone else sees it. Saying "all rape is about power" does not mean that."

Right, so I'm the only person in the world who saw it that way, and was harmed because of that?

I thought it meant that when I started to read this thread, and was interested to read the responses. I understood that 'rape is about power' didn't mean the motivation was sadism just by reading half of the first page.

Reading your posts (and the thread in general), Scrumple, it struck me that everyone has been talking at cross-purposes and the thread has been one long derailment purely because you either didn't bother to read others' posts, or possibly didn't fully understand them, before you jumped in with your views. I'm not sure why you didn't go back and re-read (or read for the first time) when so many people were disagreeing with you, and you couldn't work out why that was.

Are you the type of rapist who gets off on raping people or the type who gets off while raping people. The distinction is wafer thin.

Yeah, this exactly!

All rape happens because the perpetrator feels he has power over his victim. The motivation to rape might be mainly that power, or his feeling of entitlement to sex might allow him to use that power to disregard the victims enjoyment, but one way or another it's the power that gets him off.
No man or boy " can't " stop having sex when asked. I remember being 17 and stopping my boyfriend right at the crucial moment, after lots of foreplay. He was about to penetrate, I said " stop" . He stopped (and ran to the bathroom )
If a 17 year old boy can stop, any man can stop. My dp now could if he wanted force me physically if I changed my mind halfway through. He could presend he didn't realise or was too horny to stop. But he wouldn't. Because men who are not rapists choose not to exert physical power over their sexual partners. The moment and man decides to ignore the fact that his partner is not enjoying it is the moment he is getting of on power and is a rapist.
So whether he is a serial violent stranger rapist , or your lovely boyfriend, power and control can't NOT be the motivation in rape.

One the other hand there are theories more in the rape-sex-biology perspective. Google "Natural History of Rape Thornhill".

I've read that and it is awful. Definitely not something feminists would appreciate. They think women are asking for it by giving men signals with their clothing and behaviour and that evolutionary psychology backs it up.

to speak about my experiences is harmful.

I never once said that. I said that encouraging a belief that rape is not about power is harmful. Not that you can't frame it any way that makes sense to you personally and speak about it. But it is just your opinion, based on semantics. All rape is about power. Domination over another human being is central to the act.

"Aibu to think rape is not merely about power and sometimes is just about sex?"

There is a lot of research on this this topic over the past 40 years. As usual with human behaviour, there are a variety of different theories. For those interested it's worthwhile to google "groth rape power" for the rape-power perspective, e.g., csom.org/train/etiology/4/4_1.htm

One the other hand there are theories more in the rape-sex-biology perspective. Google "Natural History of Rape Thornhill".

Writing as a person who was raped by a stranger many years ago while in college, looking back I see relevant things in both perspectives. I'm sure it will be different for others. In my case looking back I can see the rapist wanted sexual pleasure, he used power to get that. For me it was terrifying, I was powerless.

Again, on a personal note, I think that people often weigh up risk-reward as we do things. For me the balance is all wrong for such a serious crime as rape. The risk of being caught is tiny, the penalty light, there really is insufficient deterrent.

Why is this thread all about you, Scrumple?

I don't see how the entire psychological understanding of how abusers operate should be ignored just because you don't think various methods of gaining power over victims are not really power at all.

I think 101 things that aren't really true just to get me through the day; it's a well known part of recovering from abuse, but I don't expect them to be of use to other people in dangerous situations.

You don't seem to realise that you are using emotional blackmail to push your view on people who don't agree.

Seriously how PA. People are allowed to disagree with you without you insinuating that it's the fault of people thinking rape is about power that made it difficult for you to process your experiences.

Like I said. I'm done. Thanks for the constructive feminist discussion, wherein I've been called a rape apologist and repeatedly told I'm wrong about the things I have experienced, and moreover to speak about my experiences is harmful.
It's been wonderful.

You are as I said trying to ride roughshod over my feelings with your own personal opinion. Using the fact that you have framed rape in a certain way. The fact that I disagree doesn't mean I am dismissing your experiences it means I don't personally agree with the way you have framed it.

Scrumple, you're not being silenced. You've posted a lot.

If you state a whole load of acts which other people consider to be abusive acts of power, and then you say they're not, it's not just about you and your life. It's about many women trying to leave abusive relationships.

In the case of rape vs sex, it's often the same physical act

It is not because one party is not consenting. They are being violated, dehumanised, objectified and attacked. They are powerless. This is not sex.

I'm not saying that it's never about power, and I'm not denying your experiences. I'm saying that sometimes it is not about power, in my experience.

And I and several other people on the thread think you are wrong.

"Please stop this semantic pointlessness. People are meaning other things to you."

It's nice to know that my experiences are semantic pointlessness.

Honestly, it's incredibly upsetting that a thread full of feminists is eagerly piling on to silence someone who is simply trying to say sometimes it is not always about power, and framing it that way hurt them as it prevented them from acknowledging the rape.

I'm not trying to deny anyone's perspectives on their own experiences. I'm not trying to say rape is never about power. I'm not trying to silence anyone. I'm also done with trying to argue my point with people who insist on telling me I'm wrong about my own life.

But apparently my experiences are harmful so I should shut up about them?

Did I say that? You're going further than just sharing your experiences and posting your opinion. You are trying to stop others saying that rape is fundamentally about power. People disagree with you. They are allowed to.

That should say:

Are you the type of rapist who gets off on raping people or the type who gets off while raping people. The distinction is wafer thin.

'My point, Sylvia, is that some people commit crimes because they get off on hurting people. Others commit crimes because they want something, and are willing to hurt people to get that thing'

But in the act of rape you are literally getting off while hurting someone.

I mean that is what it comes down to. Are you the type of rapist who gets on raping people or the type who gets off while raping people. The distinction is wafer thin.

And yes, of course two people in a relationship can both attempt to victimise the other through power. This is hardly a revelation, is it?

Scrumplestiltskin

You have crossed a line now on this thread and I won't be engaging with you further.

I am sorry for your experiences, and I am sorry that you feel you need to continue to place the onus on your rapist for how those experiences are framed in your mind.

But I cannot engage with it any longer.

"I'm sorry but that's emotional blackmail. It's you that is behaving like a transactivist. I am a rape survivor too and I will not stop describing rape as an act of power as I believe suggesting that there are rapes where power is not involved is HARMFUL."

I'm not asking you to stop saying that it is an act of power. I'm not saying that it's never about power, and I'm not denying your experiences. I'm saying that sometimes it is not about power, in my experience.

But apparently my experiences are harmful so I should shut up about them?

I don't see how it is helpful to frame these things as not about attempting to assert power is helpful.

YY.

Please stop this semantic pointlessness. People are meaning other things to you. "Power" does not equal evil sadist.

A large part of avoiding abusive relationships and getting out of them is being able to see the many ways the abuser creates a situation of power and control.

I don't see how it is helpful to frame these things as not about attempting to assert power is helpful.