When your own sibling is a transactivist <sigh>

I don't watch it as a whole program, but from what I have read, and the clips I've watched, stuff is going to hit the fan very soon with Jazz Jennings - that kid has been lied to and mislead their entire life, and now find themselves physically and mentally immature, completely unprepared for what's going to come in the next couple of years, and splashed right in the middle of the spotlight.

When Jazz inevitably has a breakdown, I think a lot of people will wake up to the harm being done to kids. I just wish so many won't have already been irreversibly damaged before we get there.

You can't be infected by anorexia either, but social contagion is a real phenomena.

Bootsandbraces I disagree. I think you can interpret messages around you, copy behaviours, look for answers as to why you feel unhappy or out of place and come to the conclusion that you must be trans because it seems to fit. Sorry, I'm not explaining myself very well. Not 'infected' but affected by it - social contagion

I think they take their anger at patriarchy out on women instead, because they know women won't fight back and won't harm them.

But only feminists. Not any other women. They don't go onto knitting sites and raise merry hell.

They must go after feminists because they think feminists are gatekeeping 'womanhood'.

(And not actual womenhood, the real gender roles that women have forced upon them. Only those which they perceive as fun, sexy, etc.).

I think they take their anger at patriarchy out on women instead, because they know women won't fight back and won't harm them.

One "nonbinary" I (thank goddess) only encountered online and who called me all kinds of horrid names had her photo and probably (I didn't go looking) personal data online, easily accessible to anyone.

They feel so safe.

They would not dare do this to men who know how they look and where they live, I am sure.

I've seen some FtT using the most awful insults ever. Not just highly gendered but impressively creative regarding the depths to which they plummet.

There is a lot of anger.

And it's quite true that this anger never gets directed towards the perpetrators of the crimes against trans people - men.

I genuinely don't understand the rage towards women. Yes the men view us as gatekeepers to their sex life.

But when does disappointment turn to full on, frothing rage.

It's particularly reserved for feminists. But it's not feminists, as a group, who are gate keeping their sex life.

Is it because feminists 'see' them? Because they've nailed it?

How does that account for the handmaiden's rage and FtM rage?

mmmmm ... I guess I mainly come across the activist community in my travels. I think they probably do differ. The activist community is also home to a number of FtTs who I am extremely sceptical of. I think it was Vestal who posted a while ago about the latent misogyny of this group (not in this thread) (??) and I have to say that I do agree with this given some of my experiences.

YetAnotherSpartacus

I suppose that's unsurprising, really.

I think maybe the AGP crowd do confine themselves to 'online' threats. In real life they're much more stealth about it all. It's part of the thrill.

The evolution of my attitude is very telling

I think mine went backwards from yours. I experienced the young misogynists first and only learned about the middle-aged AGPs second. My first experience was in 'real life' and the internet second.

I don't think many of the ones I have come across even have AGP - I think they are woman haters first and foremost.

The evolution of my attitude is very telling. At first I thought God just bring back your common or garden casual sexist, anything is better than these fetishists.

Now I'm beginning to look back fondly on the autogynephiles, when faced with these psychopathically violent misogynists.

sticklebrix

I don't think the hundred percent figure is particularly controversial. I believe it is generally accepted from both sides. But with different arguments. The trans lobby will say it's because the children know, whereas gender critical people (and many medics) will say it's because once you start affirming an identity it's very difficult for an immature and under developed child to reverse it all. Especially as puberty blockers block maturity!

Link below to an analysis.

But if you go onto gendertrender and type puberty blocker in the search box, they provide you with some very in-depth information, studies and articles.

You will be incandescent with rage by the end, though.

www.google.co.uk/amp/dailysignal.com/2017/06/20/new-paper-says-puberty-blockers-arent-answer-gender-confusion/amp/

Most women expect a certain amount of sexism from men. How difficult is it to now to call out male sexism from someone who says they are a woman

That's the crux of it and (I think) that's the bit they love. It's catch 22 - become the thing you hate (and oppress), but in fantasy only, and use that against them. I don't think many of the ones I have come across even have AGP - I think they are woman haters first and foremost.

Datun It's so, so inconsistent isn't it?

Despite puberty blockers being marketed as reversible, almost 100% of young people who start on them go on to use cross sex hormones.

I can completely believe it. Not to mention all the other side effects of blockers. Do you have a source for the 100pc figure? Not doubting you, but would be a good one to quote in heated discussions.

sticklebrix

Puberty blockers must be taken just after the onset of puberty. I think the time is about three months in. After monitoring hormone levels.

In 2010 the average age for the onset of puberty in girls was ten and a half.

They are expecting girls, who are still in primary school, to be able to make a decision that will affect the rest of their lives and leave them sterile.

Despite puberty blockers being marketed as reversible, almost 100% of young people who start on them go on to use cross sex hormones.

That sounds like a reasonable framework to me OlennasWimple.

It's very difficult for young adults to get a vasectomy or be sterilised, even when they are certain that they don't want children. Allowing hormones and gender reassignment surgery at a young age seems incredibly inconsistent.

sticklebrix - I would suggest that not allowing self-identification would be a good way to sort the sheep from the goats, along with a ban on hormone therapy / puberty blockers until at least age 18 and no irreversible surgery until at least age 21. And no switching genders from one day to the next - you are what is says on either your birth certificate or a GRC

Yes pretty much thought that after I read it back to myself. Same old shit, eh?

WhattheChuff

How women are dumped in favour of men.

Make more sense now?

I now think/hope so too. Let's hope that this happens before laws are fundamentally changed
Yes sticklebrix this is what worries me also. Following political developments in Canada has shown what can happen.

I sometimes feel a shiver of horror at how quickly logic was dumped in favour of self expression.

YetAnotherSpartacus

Actually, I am inclined to agree with you. The focus seems to have shifted from the older, late transitioning AGP trans-woman, to a younger, far more violently misogynistic one. With or without AGP. Or perhaps they feel far more confident in coming out at a younger age, now.

Cross dressing fetishists used to hide their sexual activity, but now it is legitimised and normalised. So no need to hide it.

The person you describe seems to be very typical, online at least.

And you are right, it is very hard to counter because they will cry trans-oppression.

Most women expect a certain amount of sexism from men. How difficult is it to now to call out male sexism from someone who says they are a woman?

That's erasure in action, right there.

And come here to rehearse or off-load. But I'm sure you'll manage it brilliantly

He's trying to make me lose my temper / cool and then he'll go me with an official complaint. I must keep calm....

How long before a woman is actually killed (as I very nearly was) before the policy makers actually sit up and take notice of who the real oppressors are

Sorry - I forgot ... this might seem thoughtless and harsh but I don't think that policy-makers actually care about dead women, I really don't. :(

Usui - yes - it (the way that young people are being indoctrinated) terrifies me. TBH I also often imagine some of the TRAs I come across doubling up as the kind of misogynistic trolls who make women's on-line lives a misery. I don't even think that some have any form of dysphoria / dysmorphia at all. It's all about power for them. And vulnerable young people who do experience dysphoria or dysmorphia or who experience other MH issues are ripe for their foul pickings.

Good luck YetAnotherSpartacus - if the professional interaction is working with this person as a colleague, then you just have to think "high status" take-no-prisoners, call him out on his rudeness.

If you have to deal with him as customer or patient, then it's more difficult.

But in both cases, there are basic rules of politeness & respect which are due to you (think of all those signs around the Tube about the expectation that Tube employees are not to be abused or threatened!)

And come here to rehearse or off-load. But I'm sure you'll manage it brilliantly!