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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Why is this a protest?

162 replies

Elendon · 22/06/2017 19:52

I understand that it's hot weather and the male students want to make a point but to do it with white shirts and ties and black shoes and socks? It's like wearing female clothing is abhorrent to them.

OP posts:
InLovewithaGermanFilmStar · 23/06/2017 10:57

however, women come in wearing light floaty skirts and blouses, short sleeve tops...why is that acceptable?

But I don't see why light, shortsleeved shirts/dresses are unacceptable. As long as they're smart & neat, and no underwear showing.

I think it's also that the range of "acceptable" clothing for women is much broader. It's a remnant of the idea that women are purely decorative in public, while men get on & do the work.

NoLoveofMine · 23/06/2017 10:46

Girls and boys at schools with uniforms should all be allowed to wear skirts, shorts or trousers.

RufusTheRenegadeReindeer · 23/06/2017 10:40

Back in the day when i worked the expectation of what was suitable as office attire was made very clear for both men and women

Both sexes were pulled up on it by managers when appropriate

Wondermoomin · 23/06/2017 10:39

I think Elendon's been rude and deliberately obtuse. And slightly ridiculous for being so stroppy that the boys chose their own way to protest rather than Elendon's preferred way (why make it about you?).

Being sent home for wearing shorts would've been a crap protest. It's hardly effective for the boys to be at home out of sight while school life continues, is it?! I do wonder if someone's comprehension skills extend to logic and reasoning skills too so that they can work that out Hmm

Whisky2014 · 23/06/2017 10:38

I had a conversation about workwear recently between men and women with my mum, dad, brother, boyfriend and sister in law. The guys said they would love to wear shorts/vest tops to work instead of suits shirts and trousers etc but don't feel they can and that women would complain because it's not work appropriate, however, women come in wearing light floaty skirts and blouses, short sleeve tops...why is that acceptable? My dad said men feel they cannot adapt what they wear to work, that it would be a distraction in the workplace and not appropriate. But they also feel women dress inappropriately in the workplace but they don't dare to say anything for fear for being called sexist or against women.
They said it's not that they are attracted to women but women think that that's what it's about.
I asked if they saw a guy come in to work inappropriately dressed would they speak up. Yes was the answer. I asked if a women turned up inappropriately dressed would they speak up? No was their answer.

RufusTheRenegadeReindeer · 23/06/2017 10:31

In my freindship circle loads of them wear skirts and dresses

No one gives a shit

I do not tend to as i am roughly the shape of a brick

Though i am wearing a lovely dress to a party on Saturday, it does go someway to disguising my brickishness

NoLoveofMine · 23/06/2017 10:29

Oh, well that's that then. I've seen you saying people are looking down on it on threads on such clothing before which is why I posted that.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 23/06/2017 10:27

have never seen anyone looking down on it.

I've seen plenty.

RufusTheRenegadeReindeer · 23/06/2017 10:26

Dd doesn't tend to wear a skirt as she is always being told off for having a non uniform skirt

She never gets told off for her non uniform trousers

InLovewithaGermanFilmStar · 23/06/2017 10:23

They ARE NOT PERMITTED TO WEAR SHORTS. It is not a list of clothing permitted by that school.
However, skirts ARE so they are they therefore doing several things:
1. Obeying the school dress code and so can therefore attend their lessons. If they wore shorts they would be in breach of their school dress code and be sent home which is not their intention.
2. Keeping cool in what was a blistering hot day.
3. Highlighting a very stupid school policy

This. Like other pps, I'm not sure why the OP doesn't understand this.

I think it's really clever!

NoLoveofMine · 23/06/2017 10:15

If I see threads on this subject I often post Lass and probably make similar points to them, but frequently wear such attire. I don't think it's inconsistent and have never seen anyone looking down on it.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 23/06/2017 10:05

The OP has been quite rude. I don't know what her point was about their wearing white shirts and a tie was- that is standard for boys and girls in any UK school which has a uniform.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 23/06/2017 10:02

Girls and boys should all be free to wear skirts, shorts and trousers as part of their uniform

But there is an undertone by some posters whenever this subject is discussed of "eugh- skirts, how horrible" . It seems a bit odd if one starts from the position that things associated with women are undervalued to be happy to go along with that.

Loopytiles · 23/06/2017 09:58

The girls should be able to wear trousers in winter and shorts in summer, should they prefer to do so.

Quimby · 23/06/2017 09:53

"I'm not sure why the OP can't grasp this. "

Oh badcat you fool!
It's quite clear the op is the only one who can grasp this and everyone else are just idiots who fail to match up to her incredible skills of comprehension.

NoLoveofMine · 23/06/2017 09:32

I don't agree trousers are better in winter. My son used to wear the same weight of uniform trousers all year but with trousers you have socks and the rest of the leg is bare. In winter the girls at his school wore heavy wool pleated skirts, thick tights and boots. The skirts were much warmer.

I personally wear skirts and dresses quite often and whilst I was in the years with uniform at school always wore a skirt but I think the issue isn't about which is better but giving the choice. Girls and boys should all be free to wear skirts, shorts and trousers as part of their uniform.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 23/06/2017 09:01

I find skirts more comfortable than trousers / shorts and hate the "if clothing was rational everyone would wear trousers" narrative. I have argued against it on here before. Sometimes skirts just are better.

Skirts and dresses are brilliant in this weather- goodness only knows why anyone would choose to wear trousers, or even shorts for that matter.

I was in Cos in Covent Garden yesterday and there was a young man wearing a black cotton skirt. It was one of those avant garde things designers like Issey Miyake or Yohji Yamamoto do but definitely a skirt.
I don't agree trousers are better in winter. My son used to wear the same weight of uniform trousers all year but with trousers you have socks and the rest of the leg is bare. In winter the girls at his school wore heavy wool pleated skirts, thick tights and boots. The skirts were much warmer.

Collidascope · 23/06/2017 08:13

Yes, I agree with AntiGrinch too. I was glad the boys wore skirts, but there was something niggling at me and I couldn't quite articulate what it was, but that post does it perfectly. It's that context of always having to justify why feminism is still needed and why no, a girl's lot in life isn't easier.

RufusTheRenegadeReindeer · 23/06/2017 08:08

Oh and i very much liked antigrinchs post

RufusTheRenegadeReindeer · 23/06/2017 08:07

I get what elendon and scallops are saying

I have been wondering about this a bit myself though and the feminist point of view on it. I feel like there is something slightly off about it but can't quite work out what!

And i agree with the above

I should point out that dds uniform is a skirt, white shirt and tie with black socks and doc martens style shoes. So the boys looked fine to me

And it would have been the popular boys and their friends who did this, any other boy would probably be teased.

Not having a pop at the boys, if my boys had wanted to do this i would have supported it...but it would still make me a bit uneasy

Maudlinmaud · 23/06/2017 07:49

It's a ridiculous rule. The protest has been a little successful in that the school are considering revising their policy. In an all girls school where the uniform is strictly skirts only even in freezing temperatures, I wonder whether a similar protest would have worked. Somehow I doubt it.

CrazedZombie · 23/06/2017 07:33

Our school allows boys to wear PE kit in summer term (supermarkets don't sell school uniform shorts in secondary school sizes so a shorts protest wouldn't get very far anyway)
The shaving makes me uncomfortable. Would a girl who is "too hairy" be in violation of the rules?!
I hope that the rules are changed so that boys get a cooler choice for hot days and that if this is a school that doesn't allow trousers in winter for girls then it changes the rules pronto.

Hotheadwheresthecoldbath · 23/06/2017 00:04

I think we are lucky her we all got a message on Sunday saying shorts and t-shirts for pupils and staff,non uniform and just for this week.Nice to see some sense in School that's normal anal about uniform but think it's more about staff being hot too.

peukpokicuzo · 22/06/2017 22:48

We will know that society has stopped being sexist when there is no longer any correlation between someone's chromosomes and whether they choose to wear skirts or trousers, wear makeup or don't, or choose specific subjects to study. Incidentally there will therefore no longer be any such thing as "dressing as" or "presenting as" a man or a woman.

Won't happen for a while but it's the media stirring up the "hilarity" of "ooh look boys in skirts" that are at fault in the current case. The boys themselves may be among those who help build that non-sexist future.

EverythingUnderTheSun · 22/06/2017 22:40

Hmm.
My initial response to this was positive, but I agree with StAlphonzo I have been wondering about this a bit myself though and the feminist point of view on it. I feel like there is something slightly off about it but can't quite work out what!

I think it's to do with the reason the protest was effective and the wider context. The boys were wearing skirts in order to embarrass (?) the Head into allowing shorts - it's the fact that's it's generally considered odd/laughable for boys to wear skirts is what makes it an eye-catching protest. The boys are relying on gender stereotypes for their own cause. I can't help but think of uber-lefty men who are all about the class war, whilst ignoring their own sexism... perhaps it's just me who's met too many of them!

Plus if they are allowed to wear skirts (?), because to ban them would be sex discrimination, there's the added twist of the law being officially equal whilst in everyday reality the sexism/gender stereotypes continue as usual.

Previous "boys in skirts" stories have had the boys just wanting to wear skirts, which is quite different.