Wonder Woman

Although that was another film with a female star and virtually no women at all in any of the rest of the cast

This is where I get annoyed actually - like in Doctor Who last week - there they are, moralising and being progressive, then there's one female guard in the big group of male guards on the ship, and who's sent to the kitchen? Yep her. Contrast with something like Black Mirror who used a mix of women and men in all parts in the cast.

We saw this last weekend and all loved it. Our 9 year old was fine with it, though the war scenes and gassings were quite strong. DH said repeatedly how much he'd enjoyed it, more than he was expecting. We both discussed the fact it had proper plotting, likeable characters, humour, pathos and a heart, unlike many noisy superhero films.

We also discussed the island scenes in the car on the way home, especially how it was good to see a film dominated by female characters in a reversal of the usual pattern where the film is totally male-dominated with a token woman - LOTR/Hobbit films, I'm looking at you! Agree with whoever said it was great to see older actresses in such strong, leading roles. It was a shame it so quickly reverted to exactly that once they were back 'in the real world.' However, DH agreed it was interesting in the island section to see how most action films must be experienced by women.

I thought Gal Godot was OK but found her a bit robotic. Maybe it's the accent, but she reminded me of Arnie in the first Terminator film.

I thought that the new Ghostbusters was pretty crappy. But then I am fairly sure that if I rewatched the original (which I haven't seen since I saw it in the cinema long long ago) I'd think that was a bit crap too. Slapstick style comedies are usually pretty awful IMO. The attacks on it were unpleasant.

There were a lot of angry comments under the trailers for Rogue One too. Female lead, multicultural team, not enough white guys (who weren't villains), how very dare Disney be so PC etc etc. Didn't stop the film from being very successful of course. Although that was another film with a female star and virtually no women at all in any of the rest of the cast. Which really took something away from the watching experience for me as soon as I noticed.

The rest of the film does pass the test but not by a great deal. There is a secretary and one of the villains is a woman. And a few generic villagers!

And in the end Chris Pine has to be a hero too, which female love interests never seem to be.

It's a good start!

I loved it too. Especially the island.

How much of the film takes place on the island?

If the rest of the film fails the Bechdel test, then it might not be worth watching, to me.

Men won't watch women. Women will watch men

It starts young - take a survey of cbeebies some time. There's this (I think self-fulfilling) belief that boys will only watch cartoons with boys in, whereas girls will watch anything.

Terry mean. It's not sexism, transformers and Too fast Too Furious 26 are just really quality film making!

Yeah, DH saw the first Transformers and then refused to see the rest

What men need is a good film, in a genre they like, and then we can judge if they would watch this 90% female cast film and see if they watch it. If one ever gets made.

They go and see Transformers, though; big steaming pile of shite that it is.

This sums it up more eloquently that I ever could:

www.slashfilm.com/disappointed-by-paul-feigs-ghostbusters/

Ghostbusters was universally panned before a cast was even decided on. Because holy shit ghostbusters can't have vaginas. SAME as mad Max. Also it was funny, and if you rewatch the original male films you'll see they were not master classses in theatre but stupid slapstick comedies with a huge dose of sexism that we all look back nostalgically on (as future generations of children will do the reboot)

Re. the new Ghostbusters, what do you mean by "not a good film"? Clearly, it wasn't a good film in the sense that it wasn't a deep and meaningful arthouse meditation on the vicissitudes of the human condition - but blockbusters aren't meant to be in that niche. It was a fast-moving action film. What're the appropriate standards to judge something of that genre?

Reasonably fast moving and semi-coherent plot (I've never seen a blockbuster that didn't require some suspension of disbelief from its audience - the question is simply a matter of how much - too much and the audience get pissed off).

Within the 2-d cardboard cutout restrictions of the genre, reasonably likeable characters with a decent amount of interaction and sparking off one another.

A reasonably creepy bad guy.

Judged on those standards, I thought the new ghostbusters did a good job - and I enjoyed it. The female leads were funny and bounced off one another, and I loved Chris Hemsworth asking the question "what would a male dumb blonde stereotype look like?" (I still giggle at the thought of "do you prefer the photo of me playing the sax or listening to the sax?")

So bottom line, you hated it (and you weren't alone in that), I loved it (and I wasn't alone in that). So far, so "de gustibus non est disputandum." And it was undoubtedly the case that there was a misogynistic back-lash against the mere idea of Ghostbusters with a female cast (online abuse way before the film's release). But I can't see that it failed to tick the boxes of a successful action blockbuster (unlike, for example, Batman and Robin, which failed the "plot must bounce along at a reasonable speed" test, and failed it spectacularly, or Tomorrow Never Dies - weediest Bond villain ever, totally lacking in menace).

Like ghostbusters and Mad Max?

I don't know anything about Mad Max, but the new Ghostbusters wasn't watched because it was a spectacularly awful film. The fact it has a mostly female cast is irrelevant.

I saw it and enjoyed it. It was dp who wanted to see it.
I loved the island scenes but I train with female bodybuilders so it wasn't unusual for me to see strong women fighting g/training.
I loved the fact that the females had athletic bodies and that ww wasn't cast as a babie doll type with an unattainable body shape tottering around in stilettos.
My criticism would be gnat the war scenes were too long.

I saw it last night and really enjoyed but I agree that it was disappointing to go from an amazing island run by women to having pretty much no more woman to woman conversations for the rest of the film. It made it all the more obvious that women aren't allowed to talk to each other in most films...

Oh I love that bit middle it genuinely makes me lol every time

It was entertaining and both sons enjoyed it. On the way home I showed them the original TV intro
'in her satin tights, fighting for her rights' wtf????

I loved it too. Especially the island.

It was just a bit depressing that once Diana left, all the other characters except for Steve's PA and the villain were male.

Like ghostbusters and Mad Max?

If a film existed that was in a genre men watched (ie. it was a subject they found interesting) that was a 90% female cast then yes, I believe they would watch it.

The main character might be female. Her entire team is male. Name a film with a 90% female cast (very common the other way around) that is popular with men. I can name ten the other way that women watch.

1. Magic Mike
2. etc.

Men won't watch women. Women will watch men.

I just don't think that's true at all. I don't know anyone who wouldn't watch WW because the main character is female. All the people I know who won't see it won't see it because they don't like comic book films.

Main female characters are usually in films that aren't tailored to men, like romances and chick flicks. So of course they won't watch them because the storyline isn't interesting to them.

All the films where there are main female characters that are action, horror, genres men in general tend to watch, are watched by men. Men don't refuse to watch them because of the women.

It's more worrying than that, I think. Men won't watch women. Women will watch men. So badly that my daughter can't find a hoodie with Jessie, Buzz and Woodie in it, even a 'boy's' one. My friends DS went to school with a T that included Leah and was ridiculed for wearing a girl. Even though Darth, Han, Luke et al were all there too.

I suspect it's more the idea that while women might go see things aimed primarily at men, men won't see things they think are aimed at women.

But Wonder Woman isn't aimed at women, nor do men think it is. All guys I know that see the DC/Marvel films have seen WW because it's part of the universe and don't see it (or any of the DC/Marvel films) as being aimed at either gender.

Apparently it's a 45:55 female male split in comic book readership, so the perception that comics are a male preserve isn't really true

Here is a European look at people who like comics on Facebook (as there's no real way to tell the sex of those who buy comic books).

I suspect it's more the idea that while women might go see things aimed primarily at men, men won't see things they think are aimed at women.