Do you notice male privilege more as you get older?

MadameSzyszkoBohush

Well exactly! There is another thread about the toilets at a University being made all gender. But only the women's.

The OP (30 and pregnant) has said she has mentioned it to a couple of the other girls, but they just looked at her blankly.

It's so frustrating.

Yes and then you wonder how those around you can't see it too and get exasperated, but then you realise you just realised yourself so...

YY Datun.

AdultHumanFemale

Once noticed, omnipresent! Having children, or being in any way vulnerable, makes it extra obvious, I think. And of course, as one gets older, there is a kind of cumulative effect of experience, when I have realised that sets of behaviours I have observed are not one-off, isolated incidents, but a 'thing', male privilege.

YY. And once you recognise The Thing, The Thing is so bleeding obvious you can't believe you didn't see it before.

''This is very true. I also thought dh was more of a feminist before we had children - now the cracks are beginning to show!''

This happens to so many men IME. Yet somehow gay male parents manage to get everything done. It's only when a woman is present that we become the default provider of family labour. Otherwise responsible men can take ages to see that they are not 'helping' and that it's not our task to delegate wifework to them. They must note the jobs that need to be done and get on with them.

''it's amazing how liberating it is to Not Give A Fuck about seeking male approval''
You put it better than I did. Liberating indeed. I love it.

I became invisible to men once I had DD. I can leave the house without worrying about being harassed.

I hadn't realised how much I was objectifying myself on a daily basis before that. I would only want to look good for the male gaze. I would starve myself as a teen/young woman. Now I just exercise and eat healthy for better health. The thought of doing it for men doesn't even come in to it.

I'm half asleep btw. Apologies for the bad grammar.

Hit post too soon - especially the sexual interest masquerading as niceness in my twenties, great phrasing.

Yy to all of the above,

IfNot - Yy! I used to describe myself as someone who got along better with men, who preferred hanging out with men. I thought that men wanted to meet with me, have lunch with me because I was smart.

Now at 40 I realise that men basically thought that I was cute / fit / fuckable - and that's why they tolerated me being around. Not all men, obv - I have many male friends and colleagues who do genuinely want to spend time with me and who value my brain as well as my boobs. But generic Man On The Clapham Omnibus? I'm invisible to him (which is also somewhat of a relief - and it's amazing how liberating it is to Not Give A Fuck about seeking male approval)

DH was certainly made to do chores by Mil, particularly DIY. I have to say that he's very good at doing things, including washing and odd bits of cleaning (we have a cleaner) without me having to ask. We have fallen into jobs that he does and jobs that I do, but it pretty much evens out and he would never demand that I do certain things because woman. Much as Mil does annoy me at times, she has definitely not brought him up to expect a woman to run around after him.

Interestingly, a lot of her friends with both parents still around and their children who are DH's friends the same age have been brought up very differently and seem to expect their DW/DPs to wait on them and the mothers openly criticise the Dils for not doing all the housework and childcare.

Mariposa, Penguin interesting both men raised by single mothers. My XH was raised by a WOHM who insisted he did his share of chores. It was only later in our marriage he decided it wasn't his job to do the shit work - or perhaps I just noticed it more after having a child because there was more of it. I agree about the early work experience when you're young and pretty but that's part of how depressing it is when you think you're striding through a brave new world and look back and realise the truth.

And the young women I work with think that all the senior men are soo nice...I'm not bitter about being less universally fuckable: I'm attractive to the man that matters, but I was very naive about how much my opportunities were related to the fact that I was young and pretty.
It also astonishes me how entitled the men my age seem to feel about their professional standing, and how many women enable that by being endlessly available to pick up the domestic slack.

ifnot yes that's a shock realisation-that a lot of the attention you got as a young woman was sexual interest masquerading as niceness. I was never a flirt and couldn't be bothered with feminine wiles so I don't care that men don't fancy me as much now I'm older. But I do find it weird to be ignored by men in conversation if there's a young woman there. Because women don't do that to men.

And yet the MRA version is that men get rinsed in divorces and family courts are skewed in favour of women, no matter what.

the Family courts wont recognise wifework so after a split where man pleads poverty and wants 50% care of child he still doesnt do all the wifework. The next generation are really going to grow up with a very strange mindset. Worries me a lot.

My DH was raised by a single mum too. He has a much greater respect for women than a lot of men I've met.

Once noticed, omnipresent! Having children, or being in any way vulnerable, makes it extra obvious, I think. And of course, as one gets older, there is a kind of cumulative effect of experience, when I have realised that sets of behaviours I have observed are not one-off, isolated incidents, but a 'thing', male privilege.

Disappointed

Well, my own partner was raised by a single mother. I would have thought it would have given him far more respect for women.

I also used to be surprised that my dad could converse on any topic but now realize he doesnt actually know something about everything but that doesn't stop him from speaking up like it would me!

I think it is easier to be unaware of male privilege when you are young and society treats you well but as a woman ages and enters the world of work and has a family, it begins to become more obvious.

This is very true. I also thought dh was more of a feminist before we had children - now the cracks are beginning to show!

God yeah. It's only in the last few years that I have realised just how much a lot of men despise women. And that's becase ( speaking totally objectively) most men wanted to fuck me. Now I'm 40, fewer do, and the ones that don't can barely mask their contempt. It's quite good, on the one hand, to know instantly which men are nasty bastards, but on the other hand I won't really know which men are genuinely OK until noone wants to fuck me.
I have become very cynical

Me. I was so naive when I was 16. I thought things were nearly equal. After I had kids I really found out how sexist the world was. Ex and I were on an equal footing when we met, I made the sacrifices, because he wouldn't, I'd rather we'd shared the sacrifices. He earns shitloads and thinks that's cos he's wonderful (not factoring in the person doing the childcare and juggling jobs that facilitated the career progression) and thinks I should have no rights to his pension etc now he's sodded off with a childless woman, and picks and chooses when he has the kids.

I do get miserable and wonder what the point was if me working hard at school, college, uni was if I'm never actually going to have a career. I worry about how my daughters life will be, and hope my sons are not like their father.

I think as women we do have to stand against male privilege - don't defer, don't become economically dependent and keep our eyes on the prize. I see so many posts talking about domestic set ups where the pp says "it works for us" where one partner stays at home - and I always think well actually it's working for him not you. It saddens me to read posts from 21 year olds indicating that nothing has changed. Who is bringing up these men? Why is nothing changing? What passes through the mind of a man that makes him think he can get away with this shit? Because society lets him and doesn't let us?

toffee yes re secretary! I was somewhere recently and there is a man doing the secretary role, alongside other women at this place. Except he wants his job title changed

I'm with you, mariposa.

All the shit you mentioned is called wife work. It's relentless, thankless and done by women.