Male plastic surgeons "correcting" the female body.

I don't even know whether my labia are proportionally big or small. I don't have sisters and have seen very few other women's labia up close. I don't use porn either.

I suspect that porn is a big driver in some women's dissatisfaction with a body part that is hidden 95% of the time. Where physical discomfort is present, that is a different situation.

Booble if your support for body positivity is contingent on a bunch of strangers on an Internet forum massaging your ego by praising your very involvement, might I suggest it's an issue you don't in truth give that much of a shot about?

It's attitudes like that that stop people like me trying to support and promote a positive body image

You stop supporting positive body image in women and girls because someone replied to you in a way you didn't like? Oh dear.

At no point EVER have I said NO man has said that. The majority don't.

So according to you the majority of men don't critique women's body parts but other women do. Thanks for explaining.

Booble you are missing the wider point here. It's not so much who says what to whom, it's that a disproportionate number of people who pursue cosmetic surgery are women, and a disproportionate number of people plastic surgeons are men.

If this doesn't fit your definition of exploitation I fear you may be posting in the wrong place. Yes we could be more body positive and nicer to each other, but this touches on an important question of medical ethics. Unnecessary surgery always carries a risk that to me contravenes the foundational principle of "first do no harm".

The billions upon billions made off the back of women's wrecked self esteem is bad enough. Bringing knives and cutting into that equation is horrendous thing.

Taken completely out of context with everything else I've said. You started attacking me for commenting on a feminist thread. I know, how dare I?! Being male and all.

It's attitudes like that that stop people like me trying to support and promote a positive body image and to try and dissuade people from the unreasonable ideals set in porn. If I hadn't identified as male I wonder if your response would have still been the same...

I wasn't going to comment on this, but seeing the reaction @ifeelcraptonight got I felt a need to add my say. (Although I have to say I feel pretty vulnerable posting on this thread).

I am that "kind of woman" as was so delightfully put by @ENFJ who elected to have a labioplasty when I was 23 years old. It was entirely my choice to seek surgery, I'd considered it for approximately 5 years. There were several factors that contributed to my eventual decision to book a consultation. I won't lie, one was comments I'd received from one male in my teens. Also the (idiot) I was dating at the time I started to seriously consider surgery watched a lot of pornography and would openly comment on the ladies' labia and how some were nicer than others. I'd be lying if I didn't say that these judgements from others didn't affect how I felt about myself, as they did. However... like Ifeellikecraptonight an equally major impact on me was the physical effect of having 'large' labia. I was in genuine physical discomfort in anything close to a skinny jean, swimming costumes weren't pleasant at all and bike riding actually reduced me to tears (no matter what I wore) as it was just horrendously uncomfortable.

I own my body and I owned my decision to have the surgery. Six years on I don't regret my decision at all. It's not for everyone, and I'm not saying by any means that people should have surgery at all, but for me the psychological and physical benefits I've gained from it outweigh the financial cost. If I'm being honest (and with all due respect) I actually found ENFJ's initial reply to be pretty judgemental towards women who would choose this surgery... and in some ways is that not the same problem as was mentioned originally- people judging other people?? So thank you for your offer to "pity" me, but I'm actually pretty happy and good without the pity thank you! 😊

Oh peri get over yourself. At no point EVER have I said NO man has said that. The majority don't.

And for the record. they rub on the inside of my thighs sometimes, even naked.

Rude much? I was merely pointing out my issue.

Why the fuck are you so aggressively jumping down my throat?

I like skinny jeans. I like how they fit on my legs. I can't get them "tailored" with more space in the crotch because I am skint single parent of teens and also because they won't be skinny jeans then.

I usually wear straight leg. I have one pair of skinny jeans - black - that I like to wear on a night out.

They also don't fit in some style of knickers, so I have to be careful what I buy. Tights also tend to rub them (esp tights as they are nylon) if I'm not careful how I tuck them into my knickers so that they don't get irritated.

I don't wear stockings and / or hold ups because I have fat thighs so please don't suggest them, as they don't stay up.

I never thought I'd get jumped on quite so aggressively for just stating my opinion on my own body. How is it feminist to tell me I should dress in a particular way?

I'm not modifying my body - I cant' afford it and I'd never ask for it on the NHS. And even if I was, I'm not doing it because I'm some kind of handmaid, or to meet some pornified standard I'm 52 ffs. I'd be doing it because I find them uncomfortable at times.

And your attitude towards me, and that reply, was, in my opinion, unnecessarily aggressive and not helpful.

By the way - it's me who finds them uncomfortable in skinny jeans for eg. No man has ever passed comment.

Perhaps you shouldn't wear skinny jeans, then, or have them tailored with more space in the crotch.

I would see your point if you were uncomfortable naked, but if you feel uncomfortable only in clothes, and very specific clothes at that ... then perhaps the problem is not your body, the problem is the clothes.

Surgery is not magic. If you have surgery, there always is risk, and there are scars afterwards. Scars that might lead to more chafing.

Fabric, on the other hand, is easily altered to fit your body.

By the way - it's me who finds them uncomfortable in skinny jeans for eg. No man has ever passed comment.

I'm not sure it's actually men who are saying oi love, you need to have a perfect labia. I should imagine most men would be only too delighted to get within a hair's breadth of one.

I would have assumed that, too, but then, you'd also assume that men would be happy and grateful if a woman engaged in casual sex with them and would make sure that she orgasms so that she'll want to do it again.

However, I frequently read that this is not, in fact, what happens. Porn and prostitution have made men feel entitled to women's bodies.

These young attractive women with such low self-esteem must be like free prostitutes to these awful horrible men,

That hits the nail on the head. In a society where prostitution is seen as normal and acceptable, men see all women as prostitutes.

I wouldn't say this attitude didn't exist before, but porn certainly has contributed to men not just seeing all women as prostitutes, but also expecting that they all look the same, i.e. like the women in porn.

peri you're completely missing my point. It is Not the majority of the patriarchy that are the problem or have a problem. Datun puts it perfectly. Men really couldn't give two fucks what your labia looks like. By time they're seeing it's it's really the last thing they are going to be bothered about.

The only people I have ever heard making derogatory comments about someone else's labia are other women (or friends complaining about their own - to whom I am adamant they are normal).

I dislike anyone who body shames anybody. Regardless of sex or reason (there is no acceptable reason)

I'm not sure it's actually men who are saying oi love, you need to have a perfect labia. I should imagine most men would be only too delighted to get within a hair's breadth of one.

But they are certainly implying it in pornography. They must take a protractor to those girls' fannies to make sure they're that symmetrical.

Women (and men) see that and think oh my God my labia is wrong. When in fact they come in as many shapes and sizes as do feet.

As far as I know (chatting to girlfriends), an asymmetrical labia is the norm.

My stomach was turned by the opposite - labia pulling, to stretch it. On the BBC News recently. So basically the same thing - natural labia not being considered acceptable.

I don't know if it is men in particular or just a money-making factory. I remember when my dd was ten and suddenly needed designer clothes because everyone in school marginalised and even laughed at the kids who didn't have them. Obviously marketing realises how much that age group feel the need to conform and really hones in on their vulnerabilities. The same everytime a woman feels ugly.

Queen, your comment about the labia funneling pee reminds me of my DM who says she can tell which of her friends were peeing in which cubicle because they made distinctive sounds due to their genital arrangements.

I have large labia minora and they make it easy to orgasm through PIV. OK, I'm a child of the 70s and attitudes may have changed, but I've had several compliments on my lush, complex vulva.

Oh sweet Jesus. If I promise to get namdt tattooed on my forehead will you shut up.

Op, you are correct. This is yet another example of men making a lot of money on the back of women's insecurities about their body. Now I wonder where these insecurities come from?

You do realise that the horrible male attitude you're all going on about is the minority rather than the norm don't you? Its just the inly attitude that people can be vocal about. I have absolutely NO issues with the female form (or male!) In any shape or size and think it's extremely important that all people can feel comfortable in their skins. But it's hard to promote this as a male without apparently being a pervert or whatever.

I hate the idea being pushed on people (especially younger people) that women are perfect and neat and smooth and love anal, blowjobs and being covered in semen a la porn/internet.

I also find, some of the most overly critical and harsh out of order comments are from other women! How can you expect SOME men to change their opinions and attitudes when a lot of women won't?

I did see a programme where a woman had it done and they'd removed too much! Turns out that the labia does have a purpose - it protects everything that is hidden underneath and also acts as a funnel for pee. Everytime she went to the loo her urine sprayed everywhere and she was too ashamed to ever have sex again. Unsurprisingly the operation was also extremely painful.