Male plastic surgeons "correcting" the female body.

There is always going to be an unavoidable(?) tension over this issue when some women feel they have made a fully-informed totally free empowering choice, and others feel that the issue is that very often our 'free' choices aren't as 'free' as we would like to think they are.

Which can come across as a bit of a shock, and perhaps not the friendliest when it comes on these boards (which is why back in the days of paleo-feminism, we used to have things like consciousness raising groups rather than having to do the pointing out in this new-fangled way!). But the only alternative is not pointing the issues out, and hence having no discussion at all.

Because it is all of us who are in the same boat, none of us are totally free to chose (although may be a bit more 'free' than others).

I see what you're saying Quentin but the posts from that particular user were judging the women who make the decision to change their bodies, not society or men whose views potentially lead those women to view their body unfavourably.

So because of the patriarchal context, you think it means some of the comments on this thread which are without doubt shaming, patronising and insulting to women can be dismissed?

It's not a "shaming attitude" to discuss the patriarchal context that's encouraging women to have plastic surgery, including labiaplasty, so their bodies fit a socially desirable norm.
Women can do whatever they want to their bodies, totally fine, none of our business. Doesn't change the wider societal context where labia are called "beef curtains" and talked about derogitarily. And I say that as someone with hang ups thanks to an idiot boy in my youth.

Yes totally mummabubs. I was completely hung up on it for years; to have those feelings dismissed as competitive or because of reading closer.... wtf?? Women have to right to feel comfortable with their bodies and I am disappointed to see this shaming attitude on a feminist thread when empathy and empowerment - the things I'd expect to see- are part of what makes women so awesome.

"we should all look to porn to show us that different body shapes are out there."
Last fad I can remember supposedly coming out of porn was folks bleaching their bum-holes..............

Perhaps that was also part of this totally wonderful totally-representative depiction of female bodies and female sexuality and I failed to notice..................

Only bum-hole I know of that looks that sparkling is the cats!

Thank you @0hCrepe, you've said what I felt when I read the first and second reply from that poster. I don't feel that I need pitying and I certainly don't consider myself to be a "free prostitute" either. Offensive and as I expressed before, it's just further judgement of women who make a certain decision over their own body?!

Porn is not a good representation of different, realistic body types. Give me strength...

ENFJ several of your comments show that you believe women to be weak, easily led, stupid and critical of each other.
You've made so many assumptions for example about it being a competitive thing.
How about women are given credit for doing what the fuck they like for whatever reason they want? Because, you know women are fucking intelligent and perfectly capable of making their own decisions.

um, right, we should all look to porn to show us that different body shapes are out there.

ENFJ
There is every possible body shape featured in porn nowadays. This notion of a typical porn star 'look' was left behind in the 90's.

"... then perhaps the problem is not your body, the problem is the clothes."

Women (shock! horror!), have inner and outer labia. Women have pubic hair. So, why is it then that there seem to be so many female clothing "choices" (like skinny jeans, like tights, like knickers, like swim suits, etc etc) that seem to be an issue for women with less than "tidy' labia or pubes????

Frankly, could you imagine men willing to undergo surgery because clothing meant they had comfort issues with their testicles, or because they had a very long foreskin which kept getting caught in their zip (excuse any ignorance of the male anatomy, as a lesbian my knowledge is strictly theoretical!)...................Really?????

(And before anyone mentions it I am aware of the sometimes extreme body modification techniques some chaps have subjected their testes and penises to, from injecting them with silicone, to splitting the penis entirely, but men undergoing surgery on a regular basis to the extent that they seem to be trying to encourage women to.........................Which BTW gives me the only supposed clothing and body mod. issue I can think of for men, which is the supposed rationale for the Prince Albert piercing.)

Bartholinsister are you serious? Porn actresses would be much more homogenous than any random group. It's far from porn that would be teaching men that there are different body types out there

I've never actually thought about this before but it's pretty grim although it does make sense now I think about it. Funny how the only female surgeon op could find was one that specialists in things that aren't necessarily related to pleasing the male gaze

The wording on those websites is also horrific.

Womens privates are no longer all that private

Mya surgery advert. God....

I don't think anyone would have a problem with somebody whose labia was causing physical discomfort getting it sorted out. That's an entirely different issue.

The same thing goes for having a breast reduction, because they give you backache, rather than to attain a beauty ideal.

And I agree there is a significant percentage of men who view women as little more than commodities.

But I am shocked if they are now starting to dictate labia size/symmetry. I have no doubt it comes from pornography. But is that really leaching out into the general population?

It's one thing shaving your pubes, but having surgery on your genitals?

Is it on a par with having a boob job? No one knows what the contents of your underwear looks like fgs.

I guess one positive aspect of the popularity of porn nowadays is people can see the variety of shapes and sizes of the human form.

Exactly Derval.

Men who acknowledge this is the way it is will prove that not all men are like this.....

The best way to make the point not all men are like , is to not be one of those men!

Oh do one booble.

The last thing we give a shite about on a thread about our own bodies - on the feminist chat board -is a bloke's opinion. As women, we get them all the time. So bugger off please.

Vestal I can assure you my bush is trimmed but not bald. I might do a zip round with a razor trimmer if I'm wanting boyfriendypartner to go down on me (because I don't like his pubes in my mouth they make me gag I do the same - a wee trim) but I am under no pressure so to do. It's entirely my choice. I have pubes to my knees, so if I'm wearing a swimming costume I tidy up stragglers. I am no porn victim.

My labia cause me discomfort, even when I am naked. And if I had the money to spare, I would like them reduced. Because they are uncomfortable. And in this country, we wear clothes. And in a lot of clothes they are awkward and they chafe. (they also chafe when I am naked)

You stop supporting positive body image in women and girls because someone replied to you in a way you didn't like? Oh dear.

What does this remind me of? Hmm, perhaps people only supporting the liberation of women when feminists are nice to them.

I suspect that porn is a big driver in some women's dissatisfaction with a body part that is hidden 95% of the time.

Very probably.

My family is pretty relaxed about nudity, I still have no idea what the labia of other women in my family look like, since with pubic hair, you'd have to look very closely to see anything at all.

Porn is responsible for the fashion of shaving as well as the fact that there are now fashions of what labia should look like.

Before porn, this was pretty much a non-issue.