Feminist perspectives on PND

But, yeah, it seems to me you're much more likely to get pnd if the circumstances are intolerable.....so no family support, bad birth, bad recovery, poor sleeping baby, problems feeding, reflux etc etc have there been studies on this? e.g. Incidence of pnd among women with / without family support with good / bad birth / postnatal experiences

Hmmm, interesting. My HV concluded I didn't have pnd based on the fact I don't feel dreadful every single day. My feelings definitely correspond to how much sleep I get. There are days I just cry and feel I can't cope. Luckily baby occasionally has a good night (3 hours of sleep in a row is good!) Wish I had family so I could occasionally hand over baby, but I don't. The only people who seem to get it are two mums from older DDs school who've offered to have her for a couple of hours while I sleep but I'm too ashamed by messy house to take them up on it. I would say that my low moods are entirely down to lack of sleep, but the lack of sleep is brutal, and I wonder how long it has to go on before it permanently changes my brain chemistry....

I'm in IKEA at the moment but want to come back to this.

I feel my PND and the psychosis I suffered was due to my partner and lack of support in general coupled with a horrid birth and my baby being hospitalised for 7 weeks. So a number of things. But mainly my partner to be honest. He wasn't there emotionally even if he was physically. And that made a big difference I feel. And the sleep deprivation...absolutely no good especially if you are prone to poor mental health already. It was exhausting. And two and a half years later it is still affecting me due to the resentment I feel about it

But, pnd is more than just depression isn't it? It's got all kinds of facets involving any combination of fear of hurting the baby, lack of bonding, feeling not good enough, manic perfectionism... loads of things that are different to the more basic "I'm really not enjoying this".

I had PND with my eldest, and it was all of those things.

I have bipolar & have experienced 'ordinary' reactive depression & hypomania - PND was nothing at all like it in my experience.

I had the opposite experience to what your OP suggested - I was not diagnosed with PND until about 4 months afterward, I had lots of 'it's just a reaction to the circumstances' in the time leading up to being diagnosed.

Interesting question. I'm currently taking Sertraline for pnd, which I've been taking since dd was about 4 months old (she's 11 months now).

In my case, I had a very difficult pregnancy - hyperemesis, and awful flashbacks from a sexual assault I suffered, which was treated with shocking lack of sympathy by the hcps I told. I fully expected that when dd was born I would feel entirely different and better, both physically and emotionally. And to begin with, I did. I felt instantly bonded to dd and I was very relieved that the pregnancy was over and we had both come out the other side healthy.

I'm not sure exactly what triggered my pnd, although for me it manifested as anxiety. My dh is very supportive and has always been on hand at night as well as when he's here during the day. But he does travel a lot with work and he works long hours. My mum has been a wonderful source of support but she lives quite far away. Dd is on the face of it a pretty 'easy' baby, but yet I still have pnd. The pp who said that it was ptsd made me wonder if that is the case for me too - caused by the pregnancy in my case, rather than the birth.

All that wittering on to say, I don't know exactly what caused my pnd, but I agree that 'just hormones' is a cop out.

I don't think that we can look at PND without considering the parlous state of mental health care more generally.

So while I have no idea about any research, I do feel "it's your hormones" would have been the right answer to me (sorry).

But you knew that, and would have told that anyone who asked, right?

If a woman says she just feels terrible after giving birth and doesn't know why, then all potential causes should be investigated.

I absolutely believe my 'diagnosis'* of PND was incorrect and I was actually suffering PTSD following an incredibly traumatic birth. I had all the hallmarks of PTSD. Of course I had many symptoms of PND but that doesn't mean anything as they are so broad it renders the diagnosis all but meaningless.

I have only ever considered this in context of my own experience but a couple of thoughts spring to mind from what you have said -

A brief look at the list of symptoms makes me think it comes dangerously close to pathologising basically all* "new" mothers.
*It potentially hinders identifying other factors that may be causing these things. Outside of other illnesses it could also cause professionals and family to ignore signs of DV for instance.

*I put diagnosis in quotations because it isn't on my medical records. I rocked up the the GPs explained my symptoms and was told I had PND and should go to the seaside for the weekend could have ADs if I wanted but shouldn't because it might be bad for the baby even though I wasn't breastfeeding. Years later I released my medical records for a job and had disclosed this in the occy health form. I was told that this wasn't on my records so there was no need to disclose it.

In contrast to Guardian, I had awful post-natal hormones with both my DC, but I knew I wasn't depressed. (I've been depressed before fwiw.) I knew it was hormones making me upset and weepy and moody and angry and awful, I knew I could get through it, and underneath it I was fundamentally ... can't think of the right word but maybe satisfied/content? that I had had a baby.

By contrast with depression I didn't have a sense that I could probably cope, and I didn't have the fundamental feeling of rightness underlying it.

So while I have no idea about any research, I do feel "it's your hormones" would have been the right answer to me (sorry). Which of course is not to say that it should be used as an excuse not to investigate further with someone who may have PND.

I haven't had pnd but know many people who have and still remember my first months with ds now 3.
I think feeling "depressed" is often due to lack of sleep and the natural overwhelming impact of having a baby on most lives in this century (i.e. We haven't grown up in extended families, don't live with older generations, husbands work away from home rather than coming in for lunch etc etc).
But, pnd is more than just depression isn't it? It's got all kinds of facets involving any combination of fear of hurting the baby, lack of bonding, feeling not good enough, manic perfectionism... loads of things that are different to the more basic "I'm really not enjoying this".

Was it this thread? www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/1786967-How-much-PND-do-you-think-is-a-rational-reaction-to-awful-circumstances I posted on it at the time under another name, when I was in the throes of sleep deprivation with DD.

I'm with you qumqat and think PND is very situational. It's a drastic change to life for women. It frustrates me too, the disconnect sometimes, between a woman's circumstances and experience and a diagnosis of PND. It's almost as if their experiences don't matter. It devalues what they are trying to cope with.

Hi qumquat,
For those first few months, I had a weird thing where I was flooded with happy hormones like I'd taken drugs even though it was really difficult. I wonder if it is more a case with PND that the hormones haven't kicked in to disguise the intolerable circumstances?