Feminist group-man insisting on men being "involved"

Men and trans woman really don't have to be part of a feminist group. A group of woman get to decide how they want to agitate for change.

Some men just feel really angry and threatened by women meeting up without them.

What is it about the word 'no' that men take it as a personal rejection, a reason to be affronted?

Women can meet and talk about anything that interests them. Other people don't get to decide on the membership or the agenda.

Women can say no to men.

Sorry but these sort of groups need to start thinking about how they include and promote trans-people on a more holistic/humanistic level. You can't restrict such important matters to 'pure' cis gender types.

I find cis offensive, please don't use it.

And, no, women don't need to be told what we need to think about. We are capable of thinking for ourselves, thanks. Men have been telling us what to think for far too long.

You could just let him join. if he is a troll he'll get bored pretty quickly once his initial smugness wears off; or he'll get himself banned for breaching the rules.

If he's genuine, you may have just found yourselves a real ally.

I really don't think saying feminism is now NOT about gender equality and IS about escaping the patriarchy is helpful.

Tell him to come along! First topic is menstruation.

Oh OP how annoying! What a prat. He's clearly been learning from Philip Davies. Ugh.

I think he has a point. I think the point of it all is ultimately equality but we are so focused on segregating ourselves to fight for our rights that I think we often miss the point of it all.

No they don't. Trans people can promote themselves, it's not women's job to do that for them

Yep.

OP he sounds like an arsehole. I'd just block and move on.

Trans, start your own group. Women (no need for the cis qualifier) owe you nothing.

Just send back 'from your tone and wording you sound like part of the problem, not part of the solution'

Well said Gallavich
All I could think of is: oh here is another male coming along and telling females what to do

Sorry but these sort of groups need to start thinking about how they include and promote trans-people

Why?

on a more holistic/humanistic level

This sounds fancy. What does it mean?

You can't restrict such important matters to 'pure' cis gender types

I think that the 'important matters' of feminism relate to female people, not 'pure cis gender type' women. Of course I believe that only female people are women and women are all female people, I don't have much time for assertions of 'purity' or 'gender identity'.

Sorry but these sort of groups need to start thinking about how they include and promote trans-people

No they don't. Trans people can promote themselves, it's not women's job to do that for them.

Yy, MyName - intent (and thus tone) is everything

I had never thought of it like that before, even though i have seen so many trolls demand "men's equality rights and to be involved" and known they were just being assholes. They were more obvious though.
So this guy could either be the "silly little women, let me take control now" type or the type that takes joy out of belittling women.
God, now I'm thinking about it more it's actually more awful than it seems on the surface. Think of a woman who's left a controlling man and feminism has helped her find her voice, then you get guys like this coming along trying to control again. Not just controlling relationships, even other family members or colleagues.

Sorry but these sort of groups need to start thinking about how they include and promote trans-people on a more holistic/humanistic level. You can't restrict such important matters to 'pure' cis gender types.

You're right - men do need to actually step up and make some changes. But a man who decides to create HIS definition of feminism, and that HE needs to be there even if not wanted and that HE is going to put down the idea of women talking about inequality, is absolutely nothing to do with being an ally who wants to help.

A little humility, along the lines of "I don't really get it. How can I help?" would be very different.

Ok i understand better now. So if he had worded it something like "I'm a man but very interested in joining you. Feminism has always been a cause close to my heart and would love to try and be part of the change"
It would come across very differently.
I do think for things to change men do have to be involved though. For example, getting men on board with hiring more women in certain positions and paying equally, because as it is at the moment it's mostly men who decide these things and if they don't listen to women, we're pretty much fucked forever.
Just like with race issues, it took a few people in positions of authority to open the doors to change. Those men in power need to be involved for changes to be made, otherwise it's just an endless cycle of people saying they're listening to women but nothing actually changing.
Just look at the heels to work thing that happened recently. Im sure if more women were involved in that decision or the men had more empathy for women, it would have gone differently.

And one part of feminism IS a safe place to vent about the inequality without have the dominant patriarchy being represented. So, women's only groups are pretty important.

Yeah, I'll happily march for black rights. I won't insist I need to be in the room to talk about the issues because I'm white and without me they won't get anything changed

There's a very big difference between being a welcome ally, and barging in insisting and telling people where they're going wrong.

Imagine if a white person started saying "well, you can only be fighting for equality if you do it MY way and I HAVe to be there, and you HAVE to listen to me". It's horrifically insulting, and typically only done by people who want to continue the inequality.

I have always seen it as similar to when white people got involved in race issues, even marching alongside black people during the worst times in places like America. Don't have to actually be something to feel the way they're treated is wrong and want to get more involved with fighting it.
It's not exactly like race issues obviously, but just as an example.

So many men couldn't care less or just roll their eyes when people say anything about this stuff, i just think it should be encouraged when some want to get involved. Realistically, many will have daughters, sisters, mother's etc so should actually care more than they do, as it is only a handful do.