Feminist group-man insisting on men being "involved"

StripeyZazie great, thanks!
I'm glad their cages are rattled, one can act accordingly.

Feminism is not about gender equality. Otherwise we will be advocating that men become prostitutes, get raped and killed by their partners at the rate of 2 a week. We would be advocating that they have a 20% pay cut, get FGM and suffer honour killings.Would also be on board with allowing 100 million male foetuses be aborted before they're born

You know, that got me thinking.

If a man went to a feminist meeting in the honest intention to provide a male perspective in order to help...

Wouldn't he then suggest doing those things?

As opposed to repeating "not all men!" again and again.

I mean, when European people come to Africa in the intent to help the local farmers, they bring them pesticides and herbicides and artificial fertilizer - things that are not necessarily good, or even superior to traditional methods, but are what is used here.

They do NOT go there and say: "This idea of sending your children to school sounds like you're trying to be like white people. That makes you really boring for the people from National Geographic, you know? Also, teaching children that colonialism is a bad thing is a one-sided portrayal of white people. Not all white people!"

When honestly intending to help, people tend towards a "do as I do" approach.

A well-intentioned dude, according to that theory, should be all: "Hey, women not having access to male prostitutes is oppression! Campaign for more male prostitutes! Also, you need to stop being so meek and letting men treat you like doormats. If a man hit me in the face, I'd hit him back twice as hard! And why not abort male fetuses to make up for the excess of male babies born in China and India? That'd balance things!"

That's what you'd expect of a clueless, but well-meaning dude who thinks that feminists should want equality to men.

But ... that's not what "gender equality!" dude does, is it?

He's all "Hey, you're behaving too much like men! You're too inconsiderate of male feelings! That's a thing only men get to be! You have to centre men, which is the complete opposite of what men do to women, but you totally must do it, because reasons!"

You need a robot

woman12345

Well done. Although I can't imagine he is anything like the transactivists I've seen if he is willing to even let you speak long enough to suggest anything.

But it's shameful that they are brainwashing these kids into footsoldiers for them.

Just come back from listening to the lovely author of The Female Eunuch give a lecture. She was inspiring, learned and funny.

I had an interesting chat with a nice boy dressed as a lady(transactivist? I'm out of date with this stuff) picketing the lecture, and giving out anti feminist leaflets. Explained how the feminist movement had supported trans activism and he was welcome to join as a fellow traveller and ancillary worker, like feminist men have done before, but women need and are entitled to women only spaces for consciousness raising like all oppressed groups. I left him with a feminist reading list starting with The Female Eunuch and asked him promise to read it.

What Greer did say about the trans people who attacked her in her lectures in New Zealand and here which was chilling and revealing was that they were literally reading off scripts in their opposition to her. My suspicion is that the whole shebang is being scripted, using nice kids like the one I met this evening.

Oh we can safely ignore the incoherent ranting the pearl of wisdom from TransAndProud (Wed 03-May-17 01:44:53). Goady fucker (or more probably self-absorbed teenaged boy) who showed up late that night to witter endlessly on another thread (Why so much trans bashing on MN?) and threw that single grenade into this thread too - probably found getting his arse handed to him a bit much IMHO.

Oh tut Venus, reducing womanhood to the biological bits and experiences biological women have in common. And wanting to talk about them when women have been told they're no longer oppressed which is the new shiny good reason they are not allowed to talk about these things, compared to the old naughtily oppressive reasons. Or something. Hurrah for liberation.

Sorry but these sort of groups need to start thinking about how they include and promote trans-people on a more holistic/humanistic level. You can't restrict such important matters to 'pure' cis gender types.

Eh? Feminist groups should be focusing on/promoting males over females? Nah, sorry. Unless you were referring to thinking about and including trans-men of course, but I somehow doubt you were...

DJ

Excellent tactic! And would definitely work on transactivists too :)

I once patiently explained to a man how many Tampax we had to use per period because he thought it was 1. 1 Tampax per period. (I mean fucking seriously you can buy a box of 48 use your fucking brain)

I think I gave him TMI because he never spoke to me ever again.

@FlossyMooToo

Dave is a total dick, who feels himself equipped to tell women how to achieve his version of what they need. Tell him to fuck right off, and not to come back.

I am always suspicious of men who make a big thing of being feminists. The two men I would classify as feminists never identify as such. No, I'm judging them by how they behave. My DH, a SAHF, would have rather stuck pins in his eyes than join a feminist group.

There really isn't any point engaging with Dave and his ignorant ilk.

Tell him to fuck off and then block him. If you can't block him, ignore him - he'll enjoy that

Dave isn't a feminist. He's ignorant and a shit stirrer. Engaging with him won't convert or enlighten him at all, it will simply please him.

Dave is a dick.
Don't be like Dave.

He has walked in to a group that discuss a 100 issues faced by women and in 1 post made it all about him then wonders why men are not included. He has man blindness

I think Dave needs to set up his own group, rather than let women do the hard graft of establishing and maintaining it, while he swans in and out with his condescending bullshit.

Perhaps whoever set up the group could outline 5 statements, or something, that you have to agree to? For example:

• Do you believe that the patriarchal oppression of women exists?
• Do you believe that saying NAMALT is derailing and hampers discussion?
• Do you believe that women have the right to discuss their oppression without a male presence?

Odds on if you said he could come he wouldn't. I have seen it before - they want to make a fuss, make it all about them, "double standards" blah blah but don't ever actually turn up if invited

He's already proved he's a prick so why on earth would they have him there?

It's all really none of his business.

Let him come to one meeting and see what he has to say. Surely that's fair. If he's a prick you can all wool him

Another guy has chimed in saying a "volunteer" man should be present "for balance" if for example women were discussing something like abuse they might be suffering

I imagine him sitting in the corner with a frowny face and a whistle and a sign saying "NAMALT" and blowing the whistle and waving the sign if women forget to NAMALT. Maybe a 3 strikes and you're out approach as well

Men do not need to be included. It's a feminist group, where women can talk and discuss ways to make their lives a little bit better. Men don't need to have an opinion or to be in agreement. It's really non of their business.

Please post this!

I think women aren't going to be required in this new (not feminist but name Dave likes) group for women as the guys seem to have it all covered

Here's an idea: Why not let him join and go to one meeting, then everyone starts to trickle out until it is only Dave and Dave's dude friends while you schedule an actual feminist meeting elsewhere?

That way the dudes are busy with their [name Dave likes] group and won't get in the way of real feminism.

Kinda proves the first reaction to his posting was exactly the right one...