Men bashing

If you think this is an aggressive clique, do go and post as a woman on Reddit WTF.

GuardianLions

You don't see it? Really?

You seem pretty antagonistic you say, in a post that is plainly meant to antagonise. Hellbent on seeing the enemy... works in the same vein, as does BertrandRussell's last post about aggression and sneering.

I'm not suggesting that there aren't very good reasons why this wouldn't be a clique, why core members might not be partisan and aggressive - I completely understand why they might be - it's the lack of self-awareness that troubles me.

Pirate's point is valid: if one is to have a movement dedicated to rights, it seems rather contrary to create spaces that possess all the same negative characteristics one is supposedly looking to change.

Society is a clique, the patriarchy is real. If you can understand that and consider it a bad thing, then why is it allowable here? It is a microcosm of all that same stuff. If privilege exists everywhere, why not here? Because people here are above basic human frailties? Do me a favour.

Could you explain where 'carries more weight' comes from? You'll see that it's not present in what I wrote. I think this is a very relevant question given the context: you are asking me to justify something I patently didn't say.

You are correct insofar as you didn't use the form of words "carries more weight" in your original post.

This is what you said: I've lost count of the number of people that have naively brought their real-life opinion to a forum such as this one, only to be aggressively accused of being a goady fucker and baited into breaking some BS rule or other (see the TAAT comment and the poster that reported you).

Taken within the context of your previous text:

It's a sad irony that those working hardest to promote liberty often become extremely controlling; there is ample evidence of this on a great many of these threads.

It is not by chance that it is newcomers that are most aware of this. Whilst many will say that time spent at the frontline (sic) will "open your eyes", I suspect that it is actually the opposite

I took your words to mean that you believe that the women who post here believe we have had our eyes opened by "time spent at the frontline" but that we are wrong ("I suspect that it is actually the opposite"). and are therefore blind to the issues.

Your next paragraph stated that you have not only seen, but lost count of the number of people bringing a real-life opinion to posters you suspect might be blind to issues ("I suspect that it is actually the opposite") and being "aggressively accused of being a goady fucker and baited into breaking some BS rule or other." No one has accused you of either of those things, despite your obvious antipathy to the posters here.

It might be that it was not your intention, but when you pit what you see as "real-life opinions" against the opinions of those you appear to believe to be blind to those issues, I, not unreasonably concluded that you feel yours and others "real-life opinions" carry more weight than the opinions of those you believe to be blind.

There is the possibility that I have taken your words out of context, which is why I asked you to expand on it before I commented further. I'm sorry you saw it as an attack, I do hope that you now understand that it was a simple enquiry based on a reasonable interpretation of your words.

Bertrand I didn't know which bit either. Just goes to show that once a person is hellbent on seeing their enemy everywhere they look they can read what they like into your tone.

You know, feminists are so aggressive... they just put you down and sneer at you if you don't understand something and ask for clarification.................Oh, wait.......

BertrandRussell

Really? You really couldn't infer? You need that level of specific clarification?
Perhaps this all might be a bit too confusing for you if you need a statement that associates a poster with a pp view point to be clarified in that level of detail.

I apologise if I confused you. I wish to be make it clear I was agreeing with the point in relation to the 'revolutionary' quote.

ChocChocPorridge

"I also find it hard to consider it a clique, since anyone can roll up and start talking..."

Yes they can but they may be dismissed as a 'random poster'. Or they may not be familiar with the correct etiquette. Etiquette is often used as a way to quell and control outsiders.

"Oh dear did I miss out an 's' - you make a clever and valid point that moves the discussion forward by pointing this out. Well done. I am shamed. Or are you going to claim you were genuinely confused?"

Sorry? What 's'? I didn't notice a missing 's' I just wanted to know what you were agreeing with......

BertrandRussell

"MotherPeresA I share your opinion."

Which of the poster's opinions do you share?

Oh dear did I miss out an 's' - you make a clever and valid point that moves the discussion forward by pointing this out. Well done. I am shamed. Or are you going to claim you were genuinely confused?

PeresA-I don't understand your post. I am happy to engage-but I can't if I don't understand.

It's a sad irony that those working hardest to promote liberty often become extremely controlling; there is ample evidence of this on a great many of these threads.

Not this one again - I'm a feminist. I don't care how you live your life, whether you paint your nails or wear a hoodie or whatever else you do.

However, I do probably have opinions on whether some of these decisions and choices are feminist. NOTE, as the Christians say, I'm judging the sin, not the sinner.

I myself do all sorts of things that are non-feminist, in the course of making it through the world.

The only person on this board who I've seen being really quite harsh (and that's just how she is, we're used to her now, I agree with her on an awful lot of stuff anyway) isn't a feminist - she declares so whenever asked.

I also find it hard to consider it a clique, since anyone can roll up and start talking...

Guardian you articulated much better than I did what I was clumsily trying to say!
Newdaddie and homity "The I have sons so I can't hate men argument reeks."
A couple of comments like this I'm unsure if directed at my post. For clarification I said nothing of the kind!!
As an admittedly ignorant and sheltered woman in this area I've appreciated reading the constructive kind and positive feedback and it's given me food for thought

What is proving your point?...
You seem to be pretty antagonistic peres.

Do you want to be involved in feminist discussions or do you prefer to just snipe about the discussions other people are having?

Me I've lost count of the number of people that have naively brought their real-life opinion to a forum such as this one, only to be aggressively accused of being a goady fucker and baited into breaking some BS rule or other (see the TAAT comment and the poster that reported you)"

BertrandRussell I've lost count of the number of times I've read posts like this without any examples of what the poster means at all.............

There was literally an example provided in the sentence you referred to!

If you're wishing to argue against my suggestion that this is a dogmatic clique, then your strategy is curious because you're in danger of proving my point. I doubt that I'll need to provide further evidence than the replies my initial post receives.

"I've lost count of the number of people that have naively brought their real-life opinion to a forum such as this one, only to be aggressively accused of being a goady fucker and baited into breaking some BS rule or other."

If there are so many you've lost count it should be easy for you to c&p an example...........

Elendon

Every revolutionary ends as an oppressor or a heretic

I believe that this comes from The Rebel (1951). You may need to be a little clearer in your attempt to shame me.

My post: I've lost count of the number of people that have naively brought their real-life opinion to a forum such as this one, only to be aggressively accused of being a goady fucker and baited into breaking some BS rule or other.

xenophile - I'm quite interested in the idea that a real live (sic) opinion brought in by a new poster should carry more weight than the opinions of women posting on this forum.

Could you explain where 'carries more weight' comes from? You'll see that it's not present in what I wrote. I think this is a very relevant question given the context: you are asking me to justify something I patently didn't say.

I saw a pregnant woman bash a man over the head with her handbag because he suggested she take his seat on a crowded tube.

I'm quite interested in the idea that a real live opinion brought in by a new poster should carry more weight than the opinions of women posting on this forum. I'm not sure if you're suggesting that the women here don't live real lives or that well informed opinions are worthless or what.

Maybe you could expand on this for us?

👍

I was just about to ask cadno why he frequents this place.

No need though; sillage has answered it

I'm pleased your content with her answer, because I wasn't going to concede to your sense of female entitlement anyway.

MotherPeresA I share your opinion."

Which of the poster's opinions do you share?

Mother as a newbie (by Mumsnet and this forum standards) I disagree.
I still remember one of the first threads i dipped my toes in. Think it was about prostitution and i was on the wrong side of it. I had arguments and everything and a conviction in my opinion. It didn't last long as a lot of posters went through the effort to explain their points,add links and research,make sensible and reasonable argument for every "but..but..but.." i had,and i started to see and understand what they mean and why they feel the way they do.
I did feel out of my depth(and still do many times), as the majority of the poster are better informed,more coherent and way ahead of me but i have never felt bullied,ridiculed or excluded. So I stuck around,still have my "but..but..but.." moments and the same posters are still replying with well reasoned,patient responses.

BertrandRussell
Interesting that wanting to have control over your own body, or equal pay or not to be raped or hit or murdered is considered revolutionary

But it was and still is considered revolutionary. In a totally non ironic way. Therefore the point of the quote stands. MotherPeresA I share your opinion.

Interesting that wanting to have control over your own body, or equal pay or not to be raped or hit or murdered is considered revolutionary........