Men bashing

Olenna so do I. But it's going to take a smidge more than lip service and echo chambers.

I just feel like I've had too many editions of "men explain the need for prostitution to feminists" for this week - can we have a quota, cause I might be able to deal better with it then

Especially when followed by "and if you don't agree you are narrow minded anti-sex puritans

Pooch lass you must have missed my post this morning p14 where I made a dozen points in response to Bertrands list. But guess what I got replies too...

Hint: It wasn't UK tax relief in relation to maternity pay for small employers.

I like Joe Biden's approach to campus rape

I'm more radical than that, newdaddie. I don't want to live in a world where DV gets reported to the police more often, I want to live in a world where DV doesn't happen. Which means men treating women with respect and shunning those who don't

So. About domestic violence

Anyway. About those 2 women a week killed by their partners..........

Reporting family members and close friends for DV rather than having a 'quiet word' would make an impact.

Have you seen this bertrand? creativepool.com/magazine/advertising/j--walter-thompson-london-router-hijacks-public-wifi-to-highlight-domestic-abuse.13997

Pornography absolutely relies on promoting sex as dirty
I completely agree. It is prudery to need the dirt, but the first excuse of those wanting porn is that anyone who objects to its use is a prude.

He wants that and he wants the reassurance that he's still a good person.

It's scary. He could be your father, brother, son, nephew, granddad, uncle; he could be your child's teacher, your work colleague, your best friend, your husband or your partner.

I think men's belief that they are entitled to sex (and therefore entitled to women's bodies) is truly bizarre. If they want a release, they can wank. The idea of paying for consent to wank into someone else (who is likely suffering from PTSD and has been driven into drug addiction through the sheer awfulness of having men fucking her all day) is just rank. I've been reading Pimp State recently and the author makes the point that some men post reviews online criticising the poor women who haven't managed to look as though they were enjoying the sex. So what men are paying for isn't just sex, but this facade that she's really enjoying it (so he can kid himself that he isn't basically raping someone) and that she likes being told she's a dirty bitch and "ooh, you like that, don't you?" (As if! was what one of the women said she used to think when 'clients' would say that.) It's not just sex he sees himself as buying, or an orifice that he's renting. He wants that and he wants the reassurance that he's still a good person.

Scrumplestiltskin

Society saying sex is immoral contributes to prostitutes PTSD. I strongly believe that if the societal shame of sex is removed there would be far less prostitute PTSD.

"As a former prostitute in a country where it is legal: this is total bollocks. Sex being considered immoral (or not) has nothing to do with post traumatic stress disorder. The trauma inflicted by (and while) being used as an object by the "clients" would be what causes that."

How anyone think other than what you have said, is totally beyond me.

On the other hand, I have seen men construct the most convoluted, ludicrous, reality-denying fantasy land around legitimising their entitlement to sex.

Yes to GuardianLions latest post.

Yes, Lass The basis of pornography seems to be 'you dirty bitch, take this' It's so anti sensual. It's capitalistic roots were in the Victorian age where 13 year old prostitutes were seen as the norm, and a bit old - Parliament even had a debate about the rights of men to their 13 year old prostitutes. The Victorians invented peep holes (so sexy, eh?).

Now. About domestic violence.......

Hi scrumples

The trauma inflicted by (and while) being used as an object by the "clients" would be what causes that.

I'm so sorry you have been through this. So angry that you and so many others have PTSD because of males exercising their sense of sexual entitlement.

Thanks for sharing.

Pornography has roots in prudery though and those who watch it, in the main, are prudes when it comes to sexuality and sexual relations

Pornography absolutely relies on promoting sex as dirty.

If men don't want commitment and women don't want soulless sex, then what bridges the gap?

Not all men newdaddie only men like you. Some women desire soulless sex. Neither make it the 'norm' There are niche corners in capitalism but in the main it's about the norm. Pornographers understand this. Which is why pornography is such a huge earner in terms of capitalism. Pornography has roots in prudery though and those who watch it, in the main, are prudes when it comes to sexuality and sexual relations.

newdaddie It's men though who put societal shame on sex and they do it via women. Women are Madonnas (like your wife newdaddie) or for paying for it. There is no inbetween? Have you no imagination of feelings of love for yourself? Embrace your innate sensuality!

Scrumple - thanks for saying that! I was trying to come up with a way of explaining this, but you've done it so much more succinctly, and from a position of experience. And for what you've been through.

I figure any man who needs explaining to him why prostitution is a bad thing is a very long way away from becoming a feminist ally.

Is that a gold star feminist ally? "I have only ever shagged feminists."

Too true!

What is the biological aversion? Is it because before contraception, every time we had sex we would get pregnant?

There was a risk of pregnancy every time. And obviously pregnancy and labour come with risks for a woman including death, and along with breastfeeding and motherhood they increase vulnerability, and of course raising a child is a huge commitment and restriction on a woman's freedom. So the female biological imperative is to only have sex where there is 'chemistry' ie- complimentary antibodies = healthy child, he is strong and healthy/intelligent/resourceful = good genes. This means women are biologically driven to be picky - unlike men.

Another thing - I always get the creeps when you can tell a bloke is starting to get turned on - euologising his own titan sex drive and how the only part of himself he could distribute as freely as his jiz is his spare change.

Or man bashing.

Oh, bloody hell, we're going to be accused of "piling in" or sneering" or "bullying" in a minute, aren't we?

If men don't want commitment and women don't want soulless sex, then what bridges the gap?

For men (and women) to be upfront when they don't want commitment, so when men have soulless sex with women it is because those women also want soulless sex with them.
If no women want soulless sex with a man, he can have soulless sex with other men.

Additionally women and men who do want commitment can carry on getting together with each other.

This way women don't need to be mistreated and used by males who have the urge to treat other people as sex objects.

Society saying sex is immoral contributes to prostitutes PTSD. I strongly believe that if the societal shame of sex is removed there would be far less prostitute PTSD.

As a former prostitute in a country where it is legal: this is total bollocks. Sex being considered immoral (or not) has nothing to do with post traumatic stress disorder. The trauma inflicted by (and while) being used as an object by the "clients" would be what causes that.

Most nice man certainly understand the evils of prostitution. That's why they spend so long trying to invent a world where you can have as many prostitutes as you like, conscience free.