Men bashing

Do you think your opening post was negative?

pirate

I suspect what you see as hostility, other people will see passionate disagreement.

And I agree with assassinated. Bunfights regularly break out across all the threads. Everyone has a different opinion.

Just because people don't agree with you, doesn't mean they're being hostile.

If you want reasoned and robust debate, you're in the right place. If you want hugs and kisses on everything and 'no offence hun' then you're probably not.
And that's not me being 'hostile.' It's true though, that different forums have different tones and there's no right or wrong when it comes to what you prefer.

Your OP was accusatory and you haven't been able to back it up with any examples. Many have asked you to, but you are ignoring them and instead clinging to the one post that mentioned TAAT.

The women here have taken the time to back up their opinions with facts and anecdotes alike. No one has been insulting or derogatory to you.
But the fact that the only one agreeing with you is a male poster who is openly pretty anti-woman (yet frequents to FWR board of Mumsnet - go figure) should be enough to make one think.

This is like a farce.

The man basher pops up to agree with the OP about man bashing.

All we need now is the back half of the pantomime horse to make an appearance.

there is just a huge air of hostility on here

PirateQueenie are you aware that it is quite a hostile thing to do to:
a) start threads that make big sweeping negative generalisations about the posters within that very forum?

b) make vague and sweeping statement's about the 'air' in a forum - making no effort to acknowledge that there may be trolls and troll-weary posters in it?

The reason sweeping criticisms of entire forums is hostile/antagonistic is because EVERYONE in that thread is going to take it personally.

So here's a question Queenie where do you get off on doing that?

"there is just a huge air of hostility on here as a whole towards anyone who dares utter a difference of opinion"

This makes no sense to me really, as there is no one unified set of opinions that all posters in one section share. There is always a range of opinions and people expect robust discussion. I don't think it's hostile.

"I do still think the comment was derogatory".

Now you know who made the derogatory comment. A man.

So having realised your error, have you started a thread on Dadsnet here, saying that you've noticed men making rude comments on Mumsnet and you feel quite disheartened about it? I'm guessing not.

If you genuinely think that kind of comment is worthy of starting a thread in order to criticise feminists, then surely it is worthy of starting a thread in order to criticise men?

Can you really not see the double standard at play here? You thought a woman made a rude comment and you decided immediately that it was indicative of the rudeness of all feminists.

And then you realise that a man made the comment. And yet at that point you do not decide that it is indicative of the rudeness of all men and start a thread on Dadsnet about it.

That's what I mean by double standards.

PirateQueenie - there really is no end of 'male-bashing' on these threads - rife is the proper word for it. I'll come back to actual examples later - there really are so many. But they are not upsetting (at least I don't find them so - maybe I'm used to them) - instead it says something truly pathetic about those that use such phrases

Also, I was the poster that made the quip about billy-no-mates. The point I was making was that I couldn't see a purpose to mens groups - but I think the same thing about organisations such 'The Round Table' and 'Rotary clubs' etc - not that there's any shame to be attached to being somebody that finds it difficult to make friends - but why then limited to one particular sex.

Pirate, do you think your OP was hostile at all?

But you haven't managed to find any 'man-bashing' quotes from a female poster, despite it being rife?

For instance, if I complained 'people are always bashing Tory voters on here!' I could then find dozens of examples fairly easily.

Argh.... spartacus I know exactly what you mean.... grrrrr

When dad's have their 'turn' with very little training or practice in spinning all these plates, they inevitably to a slightly crap job.

Or they are like my bil, who manage well and say to their wife they don't understand why they find looking after kids and house hard or stressful as he managed managed perfectly fine The Day She Went For Coffee.

Only reason he did OK is that kids had take away and were plonked in front of a DVD, that's it. The only plate he had to juggle was entertaining them, sis had spent morning spinning the rest and getting the rest ready to spin on her return so that so that he didn't have to, when he goes out for a drink or whatever, he just picks his keys up and goes, no sorting meals for his kids, no getting kids lunches ready next day as he knows he will be hungover to do it first thing, no sorting kids pjs out for his wife.

Going out together is the same, bil gets ready and sits tapping his fucking foot while sis is trying to get herself ready, bil complains she's Kate, but bil forgets she has sorted his and ironed his fucking clothes, as well as sorting kids stuff out, and then sorting everyone's stuff like books, snacks, all of which she has to carry in the massive bag she needs now cos she can't just walk out with her own things as the day is ruined if kids don't have something to amuse them, or a snack to tide to tide them over if lunch is late, which then becomes her fault etc.

Men often "help" their partners by, say, stacking the dishwasher or putting on the washing, and then make such a mess of it that their exasperated DP takes over and doesn't ask them to do it again. It's a tactic many men, even supposed egalitarian men, pursue. It's very effective.

I am totally with this. Another thing is that males often aren't taught or don't concentrate when being taught at as children/teens how to do domestic chores, additionally the mother of their own children is generally the one who takes time off of work when babies are born and soon (by necessity) becomes expert in developing routines, identifying risks as they happen, making preparations to avoid later chaos, soaking and treating stains, etc, etc. When dad's have their 'turn' with very little training or practice in spinning all these plates, they inevitably to a slightly crap job.

However, because of his male entitlement he will believe that he is just as capable as the mum even with very little training or practice, and then accuse the mum of being 'impossible to please with her high standards', or a 'nag'.

Many women in a state of exasperation and sheer frustration sound off about men being "useless" in these circumstances .

So I think their is often a combo of sexist upbringing/defensive male entitlement/lack of male role as primary carer in early parenthood that is to blame. I don't think women are on some weird ego trip

PirateQueenie, I honestly think the best thing to do is to make your comment on the thread itself when you see a comment that bothers you. Otherwise things get very confused if you take one comment from one thread and then try to pick it apart on another thread. That's why there are rules about Thread About A Thread.

Most of the sexist stuff you'll see on here is in Chat or AIBU, not on Feminism and Women's Rights.

The behaviour of people elsewhere is not the fault of the people on here. And people sometimes aren't who they claim to be. There was a troll yesterday called FemiNazi who was deleted after some awful comments. I'm going to guess that he was not a feminist.

Just as an aside, the first comment on here that you quoted as "man bashing", well you immediately dropped your objection to it when you found out it was a man who made that comment. You no longer thought of it as "man bashing" when you found out the source of it.

Are some comments okay to make if you are a man but those exact same comments are rude if they from a woman?

Because that sounds like double standards to me.

When men joke about how useless men are in the domestic sphere, there's a devious bloody motive behind it. Men often "help" their partners by, say, stacking the dishwasher or putting on the washing, and then make such a mess of it that their exasperated DP takes over and doesn't ask them to do it again. It's a tactic many men, even supposed egalitarian men, pursue. It's very effective.

Some of the most sexist threads are started by and full of comments by women.
Who likes short hair on women? Oh short hair makes you look like a lesbian who will never get a man!
By women, for women, full of women agreeing. Not all but enough.

Wellerr I presume it's because that is their experience? Also, because women want authority over their own sphere.

In a way, rubbishing men as 'useless' at housework makes some women, who may not have other skills, feel good.

(I work part time and run the house. It really annoys me when DH does things 'the wrong way'. I don't want him to do them at all, I can't understand why he does, let alone does it 'wrong'. The house is my responsibility, butt out!)

Most of the sitcoms that portray men as the "bumbling dad" are written by men. Just saying.

But why do some women do that Ava? Who are the ones perpetuating the myth that men just 'can't do' housework etc as well as women?

Pirate that person (TeacherandFeminist or something?) was only posting under that username for a day and had all their posts and those of their sockpuppet deleted. So I assuming PBP (previously banned poster).

And just because someone sticks 'feminist' in their username it doesn't mean they are one - particularly when they the go on to attack women.

The most sexist threads I see on here, recently are men are useless, what do you expect, typical man, have to train him.

By women who are not feminists. The non feminist women are the ones putting men's capabilities as parents down, presumably so the men can have an way life an opt out of childcare. Is that ideal?

Femininists would have their husband partner fully. Who benefits then? Well the parents and the children. In my opinion.