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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Men bashing

512 replies

PirateQueenie · 01/05/2017 14:57

Hi all,

I don't have a real purpose to this thread other than to just voice my confusion and possibly hear some other opinions.

I would identify as feminist - although for want of a better word, I would rather say I'm an egalitarian. I enjoy reading these threads, and comment on some. But what really disheartens me is all the man-bashing Ive seen. I have a male partner who is my world ♥ wonderful male friends and family members, and when I read some of the things on here I can't help but feel very defensive of the men in my life.

Is this the new wave of feminism? Or am I missing something? When I was growing up (with my mum as an avid feminist), I never heard "men this" or "men that" it was always about how women can strengthen and empower themselves WITHOUT putting men down.

OP posts:
BertrandRussell · 04/05/2017 20:02

"'ve lost count of the number of people that have naively brought their real-life opinion to a forum such as this one, only to be aggressively accused of being a goady fucker and baited into breaking some BS rule or other (see the TAAT comment and the poster that reported you)"

I've lost count of the number of times I've read posts like this without any examples of what the poster means at all.............

DJBaggySmalls · 04/05/2017 19:56

Cliques are exclusive. But they are defined as close knit groups, so feminism and MN dont fit the criteria. Saying feminism is exclusive is ridiculous as criticizing a trades guild for being exclusive.

Elendon · 04/05/2017 19:55

You miss quote Camus and that's shameful. Mother

It's not revolutionary to want to vote
It's not revolutionary to want to control how many children you give birth to
It's not revolutionary to want to love the same sex as yourself
It's not revolutionary to want to be paid the same as your co worker

RufusTheRenegadeReindeer · 04/05/2017 19:55

Should be really

Obvs Grin

RufusTheRenegadeReindeer · 04/05/2017 19:54

I teally don't understand this 'being baited' into breaking the forum rules

Its usually fairly easy to write a post that wont be deleted

BertrandRussell · 04/05/2017 19:43

"These places are cliques and they behave as such"

Well, if you mean "this forum has rules......"

MotherPeresA · 04/05/2017 19:41

I understand your position Pirate.

I'm with Camus on this one:

"Every revolutionary ends up becoming an oppressor or a heretic."

It's a sad irony that those working hardest to promote liberty often become extremely controlling; there is ample evidence of this on a great many of these threads.

It is not by chance that it is newcomers that are most aware of this. Whilst many will say that time spent at the frontline will "open your eyes", I suspect that it is actually the opposite.

I've lost count of the number of people that have naively brought their real-life opinion to a forum such as this one, only to be aggressively accused of being a goady fucker and baited into breaking some BS rule or other (see the TAAT comment and the poster that reported you).

These places are cliques and they behave as such.

Elendon · 04/05/2017 19:36

Or GuardianLions

I saw a pregnant woman bash a man over the head with her handbag because he suggested she take his seat on a crowded tube.

Elendon · 04/05/2017 19:33

The brilliance of feminism is that we figured that out.”

~ Lierre Keith

Yes we did. And shout we will. I will not remain silent.

HomityBabbityPie · 04/05/2017 17:19

I'm a millennial. I agree it's depressing.

GuardianLions · 04/05/2017 17:12

"epidemic" of women yelling at men holding doors open.

Weird that millennials have inherited this urban myth from - what - the 1960s?

Surely there are better tall tales we could make up about feminists by now. Antifeminists clearly have no imagination.

How about "I saw a feminist in a restaurant punch a bloke in the face for offering to pay for their meal..?

Or, "I saw a feminist headbutt a bartender for saying she had a nice smile"...?

WellErrr · 04/05/2017 17:07

I was just about to ask cadno why he frequents this place.

No need though; sillage has answered it -

He doesn't want to "be" on IBTP or Mumsnet's feminism forum, he wants to know he can penetrate somewhere he isn't wanted at his leisure

What a sad act.

sillage · 04/05/2017 16:40

My millennial niece had a Facebook rant about how the real problem between the sexes is that bitchy feminists have created an "epidemic" of women yelling at men holding doors open. When I asked her where she was the first time she witnessed a woman yell at a man for holding a door, she deleted the post.

Also, because men tend to be wearisome didactic asses when speaking to women about women's lives:

*Why would you believe you have a right to be everywhere?

I don't.*

What cadno means is not that he insists on his right to be everywhere, it's that he insists on his right to whine and throw rock-packed theoretical snowballs at feminism over a feminist woman daring to try and set the smallest of unenforceable boundaries on the internet.

Cadno has thoroughly soaked up masculinity's violation imperative. He doesn't want to "be" on IBTP or Mumsnet's feminism forum, he wants to know he can penetrate somewhere he isn't wanted at his leisure.

"Central to masculinity is a violation imperative. Men become ‘real men’ by breaking boundaries. The real brilliance of patriarchy is that it doesn’t just naturalize oppression. It sexualizes acts of oppression. It eroticizes domination and subordination, and then it takes that eroticized domination and subordination, and institutionalizes that into masculinity and femininity. So, it naturalizes, it eroticizes, and it institutionalizes.

The brilliance of feminism is that we figured that out.”

~ Lierre Keith

cadnowyllt · 04/05/2017 16:39

Men routinely hold doors open for each other - oblivious of any threats to their masculinities.

RufusTheRenegadeReindeer · 04/05/2017 16:30

Yes it is good manners to open doors for people if they are struggling or keep it open if you have just gone through yourself

jellyfrizz · 04/05/2017 16:25

Isn't it just manners to hold the door open for someone whether you're a man or woman?

RufusTheRenegadeReindeer · 04/05/2017 16:13

My dad will say that feminists yell at men that open doors for them

But when i asked him he had never seen or experienced it himself

He is 72 and an old school gentleman

Not to say thats its never happened to anyone obviously.

GuardianLions · 04/05/2017 15:58

Yes Bertrand it does whiff of bovine arse to me too..

BertrandRussell · 04/05/2017 15:41

"here was a situation once whereby my partner and I went for dinner and when we left the restaurant I walked ahead and he waited and held the door open for the woman who was leaving behind him. She had a real go at him telling him "I don't need a man to hold the door open for me", as if he was patronising her. The thing is he does this for anyone, he's just polite! I was really surprised that anyone would be offended by this!"

Half way through the thread- but I had to stop and be amazed! This is the first time I have ever read of anyone witnessing this scenario in person. The other 487 times it happened to someone else and was being reported. I hope the OP took some pictures!

TimeforANewTwatName · 04/05/2017 15:29

Haven't quite finished reading this thread. But wanted to comment before I got side tracked.

mouse I regularly NC, and stray on and off these boards a lot, I have no problem with them, and yes I've had different views and expressed my opinions.

Many years ago I wrote a very damming post about feminists. I wholly believed modern feminism was the scourge of the earth. I argued aggressively about equality for all humans, as the classes with the elite at the top was the problem. (In some ways I still see this as a main problem)

I also waded in (not really understanding the full significance of the debate) on male and female brains, for obvious reasons I was questioned and asked for evidence every step of the way. As I believed in my convictions I went and found some, then more when requested, then peer reviews, then more evidence from the one of the most credible uni.

We argued about the use of a word, at which point I was tired, annoyed and deflated. I spat my dummy out and flounced. But that thread made me think, it made me value real evidence, peer reviews, and reading actual papers, and not something cherry picked for articles.

Later I'd come and read some of the stuff on here, to secretly scoff to myself but a few threads I agreed with, others I read then went away and thought about.

I don't agree with everyone/everything on here but that's life. Sometimes I learn stuff sometimes I don't.

All I can suggest to newbies is hang around, read through threads, there will probably always be someone who says what you wanted to say, then you see the replies.

Ask questions, have an opinion but be prepared to defend your opinion and not be offended/put off because some may disagree loudly or ask for evidence/facts/research/theories.

OlennasWimple · 04/05/2017 14:29

*same coin that oppresses women

OlennasWimple · 04/05/2017 14:27

Yeah, I know Homity. But when MRAs men say "but what about things like male suicide rates, this proves that men don't have it easy either", I want to scream, shout and stamp my feet that it's the other side of the same coin that oppresses men. The pp upthread who talked about the fear of emasculation being so strong had it right, IMHO

I have a son as well as a daughter: I fight the good fight mostly on her behalf, but I also want my son to grow up in a society where it's OK for him to admit when things are tough and be able to seek help without being seen as weak and feeble.

HomityBabbityPie · 04/05/2017 13:45

That's awful olenna Flowers

But - and I don't mean this in your case particularly - it is perfectly OK to say you are a feminist because you want to help women. We don't have to emphasise that it helps men too. It's ok to just stick up for women.

OlennasWimple · 04/05/2017 13:43

My determination to take down the patriarchy is redoubled this morning by the news that one of DH's (male) friends tried to commit suicide last week. A friend of a friend lost a (male) work colleague to suicide last month. Fucking toxic masculinity.

cadnowyllt · 04/05/2017 13:27

...and in any event, a 'right' is only due to a person by the State rather than by other individuals.