Men bashing

Resting

Agreed!

I think the real truth is likely somewhere in the middle. Looking back through this thread I can see posters using Pistonheads as an example of how men talk amongst each other. It's a well known boy racers forum FFS! Like going on the forum for Rich Housewives of Texas and using it to make statements about the beliefs of the average woman.

A lot of people tend to be a bit intellectually lazy. It's much easier to say stupid things like all men are potential rapists or husbands force their wives to sacrifice their careers to stay at home with children so that the husbands can get on with it than to rationalise institutional, biological and, cultural biases that obstruct women's ability to achieve true equality to men.

People seem to be taking issue that the example of man bashing was posted by a man.

I'm calling internalised misandry...

I'm only one page into this thread and already the usual suspects seem to be trying to shut it down. I have a feeling that I know where this discussion will go...

So sad when women feel the need to bash men because of negative experiences or hyped up news articles. Just because Corrie and Loose Women portrays men as incompetent idiots doesn't mean they are and nor should it (or the media) reinforce your beliefs that it is okay to discriminate on the basis of gender. As a man, most of my male friends do not go around speaking less of women and when they do usually they are confronted as we wouldn't want people talking about our mothers, sisters or daughters about that. However, that being said, it seems rife amongst women that it is okay to openly negate and demean men.

bertrand

Its partly my usual confusion

I hadnt quite realised that it was about men leaving wee and poo everywhere...I quite agree it shows complete distain in a grown man

Don't worry, Rufus-that's fine.

The loo thing makes me so angry. Mumsnet is full of women who routinely wipe up men's pee on the loo seat and the floor round the loo and clean their shit from the bowl. They complain but excuse and justify. If leaving your bodily fluids for another human being to clean up isn't as sign of complete distain I don't know what it is.

bertrand

Sorry if my flippant post gave the impression that i dont agree with what you are saying

I have been on the threads long enough to appreciate the difference between individual circumstances and men and women as a class

Its always very interesting when posters expose the underbelly of things and give you a lightbulb moment

Mousse sorry for your loss and treatment

Rufus if you don't clean the toilet then who does? Did your mother clean the toilet for you when you were a teenager?

Mousse - I just read this article in the Guardian and Muslim women's rights activists

I confess I found it very wordy and not particularly informative, but it seemed timely and might be of interest

Tartle The difference is that black South Africans led the struggle against apartheid, many of them lost their lives in the fight.

This comparison between race and sexism often ignores how united/unapologetic black people against racism.

Moussemoose
I think you handled a nasty situation with dignity.

I'm sorry, Mousse. It's very hard to deal with something like this when you're already feeling emotionally vulnerable.

Not at all on the same scale, but I still feel angry about a visit to St Mark's in Venice with my family a couple of years ago. It was very hot and we were all wearing shorts (not particularly short shorts) and T shirts. My (eleven year old!) daughter and I were both handed lengths of material to wrap around our legs before we were allowed in. Surprise surprise, no such thing was required of my (male) partner (or our younger daughter).

It made me feel simultaneously ashamed and furious. Even more so on behalf of my daughter.

Mousse the difference between how racism is treated vs feminism is mostly that black people as a class make no excuses for racism. You would be hard pressed to find a black person questioning whether racism still exists or not as is often the case with sexism.

I can tell you now, had it been a race matter, black people would have boycotted the mosque.

Mousse - what a terribly crap thing to have to go through. Sometimes you just have to go with the only compromise available to get you through the situation, but it must have felt terrible.

Thanks for that everybody. The men in my life are appalled and supportive but there are some things they just can't get. Solidarity sisters

I'll think of some polite but pointed words and get on with my life but that is an experience I could happily live without.

Mousse
He will ask me how my weekend went and my response at the moment is neither respectful or pleasant.

Apologies if this is a stupid idea, but might it help to practice a short but to the point reply in advance?

Moussemoose.

It sounds like a shit experience. Being reminded of your status at such a poignant moment.

A clash of culture interfering in your need, and right, to grieve.

Are women's tears worth less? How dare they.

And your position. To stand with the other women in solidarity? Or to make a stand for solidarity?

You did the right thing for that moment in time. However painful.

for your loss. Both of them.

Sometimes you have to compromise your ideals to get by in the real world. It sicks but there's not much else you can do. A funeral is definitely not the time or place to tackle this issue and saying goodbye to your friend was more important.

I have had to travel to Saudi for work a couple of times and it makes me deeply uncomfortable but I need gainful employment so I don't have much choice. I comfort myself with the fact that what I do has a positive impact on women's educational opportunities so it counteracts any support for the regime.

It sometimes amazes me that the situation of women in Saudi is not viewed as analogous to the situation of black South Africans during apartheid. no one really seems to care.

Well let me tell you Rufus if you were Muslim you'd be cleaning the toilet.

I have a Muslim colleague who I like and respect, he is always respectful to me. He will ask me how my weekend went and my response at the moment is neither respectful or pleasant.

I didn't fight and I feel shit. I had no choice it was a funeral. I've lost someone I care about but I feel like I have sold out. If it was a race issue, if I was defending my black friends I would have stayed in the car park. But you know feminism there is always a good reason to not fight, God forbid we make people uncomfortable so you climb the stairs and peek through the glass.

Fucking, fucking patriarchy wins again

Im am just still at the toilet bit

I've never cleaned a toilet...I'm a bit concerned about what that says about me

Mousse

I'm a pragmatist too (which is why the label rad fem doesn't sit so well with me), and I generally don't think that other people's weddings and funerals are the places to fight the good fight.

Some mosques are more progressive than others - separating the congregation, but no screening between the men and women and equal views of the service, for example. But generally religion tends to reinforce the patriarchy, and many branches of Islam are particularly bad in this regard.

About a million years ago when it were all fields and I was several names younger, a lovely poster called onebatmother and I set up a secular radical feminist commune. We had bandanas and badges and everything.........

Just at the moment a rad fem coven sounds like a damm fine idea to little old liberal me.

Homity I personally don't think feminism and religion are compatible but that's a whole other thread.

Oh, I don't know. I've always felt a sort of connection to nature, in touch with the greater universe without the human (male?) society bullshit, style of thing. Quite like the idea of a coven... (only half joking)