Learning about transgender issues

sigh well, that appears to be it. Trans-Koolaid has been swallowed by the school, no free thinking allowed. I would be very, very, very surprised if those posters were anything but pro-gender-stereotyping.

I'd explicitly tell her that I sadly am not allowed to refer her to sites such as 4thwavenow, or X, Y or Z (insert gender-critical sites here) because it is posters only, but I'm not the one in danger of losing a job, so ...

Do what's best for you. :(

First that was exactly my first thought. Going to have a walk around school tomorrow and look for myself. Whatever they say though, I have to direct my pupil to them, and to them only

Is that usual? I mean would the school say the same if you were supporting over other issues such as domestic violence, mental health concerns, eating disorders or similar? Or is this the policy for trans only? Seems to me the response to have when you are too intimidated or otherwise scared to think for yourself (referring to the 'top' here and not to you, Welsh).

My org now has clear and explicit policy re requiring we refer to sex as determined by bodies and gender as what we feel inside. There are strict penalties for misgendering. I will have to step away from discussing anything about gender, womens oppression I think, because I can't risk getting it wrong upsetting the men.

I bet they are from Gendered Intelligence. An organisation that, on the face of it, seem perfectly reasonable. Lots of talk about breaking down gender stereotypes and all that. All very feministy. Until it comes to trans where all of a sudden, stereotypes agogo. Bait and switch.

Surely pastoral staff have to support students, not just ask them to read posters?

What do the posters say?

WelshMoth

This is a minefield. And a responsibility that neither you nor the school should have to shoulder.

Unfortunately we have heard time again, both on this forum and others that if you are worried you are transgender one of the first things is that you will be pushed for treatment. The treatment only goes one way. If you have gender dysphoria, there is no NHS recourse for ongoing psychiatric care.

You don't want puberty blockers and hormones? Then go away, we don't have enough money/resources to treat you.

So then they go back online for support and are told they need to get with the programme as the only means.

It's bad enough for somebody who does have gender dysphoria, but it's a catastrophic nightmare for someone who is just messing around with their personal identity, for whatever reason.

My advice, and it is benign, is to discuss gender dysphoria with this girl in order to get her to discuss it with her friend.

Get her to try and keep it within the realms of a medical condition in order to separate an illness, from the understandable (and fairly rational, but ultimately damaging) fear of being a woman.

Gender dysphoria is not a belief system. The trans-ideology is.

Agree - I hope though that she can find a counsellor who can actually think, as opposed to one who will simply push her on the bandwagon

Very, very unlikely, though. There was this transwoman on mumsnet who reported it being impossible to find a therapist who'd not push them on the medical transition bandwagon but instead help to treat the dysphoria.

And parents who want help for their children have had to research experts on anorexia to get the children help instead of hormones and surgery.

If you just seek out the next best counsellor ... chances are they'll push towards transitioning.

I hope WelshMoth's wellmeaning actions don't put this 18 year old on the path of no return.

I have said that this is something that she needs support with, and the support of a trained counselor as opposed to a naive yet well-meaning girlfriend

Agree - I hope though that she can find a counsellor who can actually think, as opposed to one who will simply push her on the bandwagon :(

I might be wrong, but often, for the 'older' transwomen this is about bodies rather than feelings about gender. And usually they name it as a mental illness. And I have no problem with most of these people.

I agree. And if this hadn't been hijacked to push a belief system, none of this rights issue would have come up.

The only times I have seen trans-allies actually engage and proffer an argument (after it's been deconstructed), it always just comes down to a feeling. An essence. Something they're not quite sure about but it exists

There are TRAs and other 'older' trans from the earlier ere that come here and they are very different (as you know).

I might be wrong, but often, for the 'older' transwomen this is about bodies rather than feelings about gender. And usually they name it as a mental illness. And I have no problem with most of these people.

Also, most tell of 'always knowing' something was wrong or always feeling alien in their bodies.

The young woman in the OP's post sounds more like she woke up one day and thought she might be trans, which is a whole other ball game.

Puberty blockers have REALLY serious side effects, one of which is bone depletion.

Putting children on them for long periods of time is extraordinarily dangerous.

Is it transphobic to question why my then 11 year old daughter was told, at school, that it perfectly healthy to take puberty blockers, when just a few years before, consultants - experts in their field, were telling me they are only to be used in extreme circumstances, for a short time?

Why is it transphobic to ask questions?

YetAnotherSpartacus

I really wish we could have a proper bloody dialogue. Without it ending, or actually starting, with you're hateful because, reasons.

And they all act like they have just given you 25 reasons to refute what you say. When no discussion has taken place.

The only times I have seen trans-allies actually engage and proffer an argument (after it's been deconstructed), it always just comes down to a feeling. An essence. Something they're not quite sure about but it exists.

In fact I'd have more respect if people just started with that. I know you don't understand, no, I can't explain it, it just is.

welshmoth

This has just come up on my feed. You might find interesting.

rainbowery.com/teens-are-becoming-transgender-because-its-trendy-expert-says/

Blimey, Katnis went from trying to sound reasonable and balanced to "your all a bunch of awful humans" more quickly than most.

WIW, I'd go with transgender trend. They do a balanced and fair discussion. I definitely wouldn't go with Mermaids because they can't even get basic stats right, and if they can't do that, then any conclusions they come to are going to be massively skewed and incorrect.

^ all the TRA plants we've had here say this... but they never follow through with it. They keep coming back like that smell in my bathroom cupboard. The other thing is that they very rarely actually respond to points made. The usual routine is

Wah, you are being transphobic.
Here's the TRA position.
Wah you are being transphobic and not listening to me.
Here's the TRA position again.
Wah, I'm leaving.
....
Wah you are being transphobic ... wash, rinse, repeat.

In view of the massively invasive surgery involved, the loss of sexual function, the high risk of serious and lasting side effects, don't you think it would be unethical not to ask "are you sure this is right for you

^ This.

Again about trying to make sure they read a balanced range if views. I worry about young gender curious or confused kids being sucked into the crazy side of trans social media.

I know a girl in a similar position. Their friend then to become boyfriend came out as trans. This young girl wanted to support their bf and got sucked in along the way. The bf then wanted an open relationship and said they preferred boys. Out of nowhere with there never being a sign of gender confusion - this teenage girl suddenly announces she's a boy and is transitioning. Totally caught up in the trans community and immersed in trans social media. And she'll probably still lose her boyfriend.

You know what? I give up. It's not that you are better informed it's that you are informed on one side.

You are not determined in your convictions, you are single minded and opinionated.

Duck this, life's too short to continue banging my head against the wall.

NotCaryl, Katnis, what do you think is the appropriate response to a teenage girl who suddenly says "I'm trans"? Some organisations (Mermaids) push for the idea that the only appropriate response is unquestioning acceptance; people instinctively know their own gender identity and it is not to be questioned. Many parents (especially when the announcement has either come completely out of the blue, or alternatively follows on from a long history of mental health issues or possibly non-neurotypical diagnoses) instinctively want to say "what makes you think that?"

So, what's the appropriate response? "Yes, you're clearly a man, and we support you 100%" or "What makes you think that?"

Please read the pdf I linked to above - it's published by GIRES, so should be "ideologically pure" enough for you. In view of the massively invasive surgery involved, the loss of sexual function, the high risk of serious and lasting side effects, don't you think it would be unethical not to ask "are you sure this is right for you?"

I think what you are objecting to Katnisnevergreen is the sense of utter conviction that the women have on here.

What you are having trouble resolving, is that if the people here do not hate trans people, then why do they disagree with the ideology?

What you perceive as smugness is genuine concern, particularly about the exploitation of children and people with fragile mental health.

What you perceive as superiority is a lot of very well informed people.

You might really want to ask yourself why concern, research and a distinct lack of hate is interpreted by you as thinly veiled transphobia.

Your determination to see the worst in people says a lot.

i agree notcaryl. MN, in particular this forum, is very anti trans. I won't say transphobic because they are always careful to not say anything openly offensive, but are clearly pushing their viewpoint.

I object to the sense of smugness and superiority of the posters here, it's as though they feel they are above the rest of the world, therefore their views are better.

OP, I would go elsewhere for advice