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Original poster

When 'allies of feminism' turn out to be...not

78 replies

explodingkittens · 29/04/2017 07:54

I mainly lurk on the feminism boards and have learned so much, but I really felt the need to post and try to get my head around this issue. I don't want to give too many details as I know the person concerned is an MNer but I just need to know if I'm being ridiculous, I suppose.

I have a male friend who I have always believed I was close to. We have known each other for several years and I honestly believed that he was an 'ally'. We both work in an area where respect for, championing of even, women's rights and women's voices is fundamental. He has always been very vocal about this but also committed (I thought) to 'walking the walk' as well as just shouting about it.

We differ on many aspects of feminism - most recently the whole trans thing (I'm supposedly a TERF, he's all about the 'trans women are women' shit) and our discussions about it have been fierce at times. But that's what I have enjoyed about our friendship, we differ, we argue, but I felt that we always met as equals. I also need to say that he has been incredibly supportive of some horrible personal stuff I've had over the last year - he has been a rock.

But a couple of days ago we had a 'discussion' (about something to do with work) and the outcome is that I seriously now doubt that he is any kind of ally at all, and it's thrown me for a loop. If this man doesn't believe that women are truly equal and that their voices are important, then who the fuck does?

I won't go into detail but basically I pulled him up on something ridiculously mansplainly and patronising he said (and actually said that I was pissed off about it), and his reaction - to ignore, shut down and then belittle - has genuinely smacked my gob. He has ignored me since.

It has left me wondering if Germaine was right all along, and women genuinely don't have any idea of how much men hate them. I realise that might sound like an overreaction but I feel like the scales have fallen, and it's not a pretty sight.

I feel equally gutted and furious. Someone tell me I'm making too much of this, please?

OP posts:
DadWasHere · 29/04/2017 08:17

Some men hate women, some women hate men. Men, being stronger, have greater scope in which to manifest that hate. Anyone old enough to go through the feminist sex wars (the more modern version being transgender politics) knows that there has always been huge disagreement within feminism about what it legitimately is and should be. Men need have no role at all in that discourse .

Germaine, who (if my memory serves) famously back in the day suggested that newly married men should have a broom handle shoved up their arse so they properly understood PIV, staked her territory on where she stood on what feminism meant/should mean. What I see, mostly, is that some women hate men, some men hate women, but overall most are basically decent people not fully aware of the lived reality of the other gender.

Original poster
explodingkittens · 29/04/2017 08:06

I know, I'm sorry, I just don't want to out myself (although I probably already have)

It was just his reaction. To shut me down, to ignore, and then to belittle, because I said 'that comment you made pissed me off'. Where 5 minutes earlier he'd been telling me how important it is that a woman's strength is celebrated.

I feel like a fucking idiot.

OP posts:
theaveragewife · 29/04/2017 08:00

I think it's hard to say without detail.

I had a close male friend who I believe supported me and saw me as an equal when we were younger, unfortunately over the years it's become obvious he does not see all women as equal and will put some on a pedestal and others are to serve needs or be ignored.

Losing that friendship was tough, but when you've seen who someone really is there's no going back.

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