Sex Robots- creating the "perfect" woman

"Being civilized is recognising that there is barbarism deep down within all of us."

Being misogynist is incorrectly thinking men's barbarism is the essential template for all humankind.

Vestal, it tells us that many men are sexually attracted to sexual compliance and control, and that society provides them with opportunities to fulfil those desires.

One of the objections some men have to visiting prostitutes as a substitute is that not having a girlfriend reduces their social status. I suppose these dolls will at least be a sign of wealth and status.

**

Start with Carpe Jugulum, that's the book from which the quote is. It made me a Pratchett fan. Highly recommendable.

A robotic doll obviously has no humanity- it is a thing. But it essentially becomes a training tool to help men dehumanise women. This is happens already with the non robotic sex dolls but the process can only be accelerated as the technology develops. The closer that the thing becomes to being a person the closer the person becomes to being a thing.

That's a really good explanation of why those sex robots are so worrying.
Though I wonder which way round it is - do the men train themselves to view women as objects ... or are they already there and that's why the robots appeal to men?

I mean, soldiers are trained to shoot at human-like targets so that they'll not hesitate to shoot enemy soldiers in war.
Now, imagine giving a soldier one such human-like target doll and telling him that this is his new best friend.

You can't imagine that, can you? You can't imagine a man living in civilisation treating a male doll as his new best friend. Your average soldier is more likely to become friends with a man from an enemy country (before you start dehumanizing those people in his eyes, but most likely even after) than to pretend that a doll representing a human from this country is his friend.

He'll only see person and object as essentially the same once the process is completed and he sees the enemy soldier as object, only fit to be shot.

What does that tell us about men who readily accept a sex robot as replacement girlfriend?

The bloke cuddling and kissing his doll was the creepiest thing I have seen in a long time.

Yes, Tartle, that is what they're trying to emphasise in that campaign. The way the dolls' creators are talking about the dolls is through comparison to prostitution, conflating women with the dolls.

The creators claim the dolls can give an impression of loving and caring about the man. They can give the impression that they are enjoying sex. The creators say even though they're not actually experiencing these things, that doesn't make a difference to the target market, because prostitutes also feign those things, and the customers find that satisfying.

That is probably why these dolls with such responses are not being marketed to women - because no large market of women exists that wish to enter into an intimate sexual encounter in which love and sexual pleasure are faked by the other party, but the target male customer base is used to that being available through prostitution.

Women whose sexual subservience can be bought have to already exist and have been normalised for these dolls to be seen as a rewarding experience by the customer.

Love that quote, Tartle. I often reread Terry Pratchett and I remember that definition of sin by Granny Weatherwax. I would like to see myself as Granny, but I have a sneaking suspicion I'm more like Nanny Ogg.

You've verbalised some things I've thought for a while, in regards to how consumer culture affects society, and objectification, and certainly raised food for thought.

But I don't feel it's any worse than the past, in regards to women - I feel rather strongly that it's better in fact. By far the lesser of two evils. I'm more focused on fixing all the rape and child abuse and sexual harassment, and such. Nearly all of which is committed by males. I don't think women getting a leg over is the cause of any of these, or societal downfall for that matter.

But yes, I do agree that the "me - me - me" self-absorbed consumer culture is a negative thing for society, especially when focused around sex.

Thanks for acknowledging a point of agreement Scrumple. Sorry if I derailed.

I agree with Independent on one thing, at least: I see women in society gradually beginning to objectify men and ourselves, in the same way that men objectify us, and I don't think that's a good thing at all.

I fail to what that, and the rest of Independent's, erm, points of discussion, have to do with the topic of this thread, however.

As to sex robots: I don't think they're going to do anything good for women, or society as a whole.

younger, I'd have said, prawn.

I've come to this thread late and all I want to say is that I marvel, not for the first time, at the patience and courtesy of the regular FWR posters. I wonder if I'm right in guessing that this thinker is indeed 21?

Yes, they make it clear in that campaign that they are not seeking a ban.

And another one, not a campaign, but article on the great late Andrea Dworkin, who worked tirelessly against this sort of malarkey.
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/mar/30/andrea-dworkin-the-feminist-knew-teach-young-women

The struggle continues.

One of the contributors to Woman's Hour was stating that they should be banned.
I can't see why it would be unethical to make code available. I doubt it could be stopped as there is so much money to be made from porn/ sex stuff.

tartansnowman
Here's the link to campaign against them. I am
campaignagainstsexrobots.org/2017/04/28/rise-of-the-sex-robots-the-guardian/

Being civilized is recognising that there is barbarism deep down within all of us.

Things could change.

www.wpxi.com/news/allegheny-county-woman-arrested-in-child-pornography-case-/473337343

abc3340.com/news/local/etowah-woman-jailed-on-child-pornography-charges

I disagree. I think power and the desire for power is part of human nature. We've had a patriarchal power system for a long time and eventually there will be a different power system. Human beings are flawed creatures. That isn't to say human affairs are always based on power. We are also capable of love, heroism and generosity. But the world will always be a mess.

Gloria, I don't think that anyone is campaigning to ban them.

There is discussion around whether or not it is ethical for researchers working in AI to made code and other developments available to those who are working on sex robots.

"But that is completely different from concluding that women don't have equally aggressive or malign drives and motivations that could be manifest in all sorts of different ways, given the opportunity."

Women currently have the ability to purchase homeless and/or drug addicted teens for sex, and they don't. Groups of women could easily overpower a lone male sexually, and yet women don't. Etc.

Your bias is in assuming men are the default human. In such a man-centered view, equality means women will "naturally" sink to men's level instead of the more feminist conclusion that, free from patriarchy, men will likely commit as little violence as women do.

No, people can change. Reformed IRA killers have dedicated themselves to campaigning for peace; former white supremacists have become anti-racists. But even then there has to be willingness to change. Some people are incapable of changing because they just don't care that they're arseholes. We've all met people like this.