Cailyn Jenner in woman's hour now!

HermitTheFrog

It's great that you wouldn't say that. Can you understand how, when women do hear that however it sounds crazy?

You say that you are not a transactivist, which I can easily see.

Do you think transactivists are turning transgenderism into something you disagree with?

Why did you say that you not having periods was the same as your cousin then? Surely you can see it's a totally different thing?

datun

i don't know any trans people who have children i think you are speaking about people probably much older than me (i'm 23)

i can only speak from my personal experience if someone asked me do i have children i'ed say no because i don't if they then asked me why i have no children i'ed say it was because i just chose not to have children and that having children wouldn't be right for me i wouldn't say i was infertile.

i'm saddened at some of the things some of you are saying here sounds like stuff the alt right says i think its sad some of you's are choosing to believe stereotypes

That's fucking hilarious. We are choosing to believes stereotypes?!

Answer me this: why is it when a mtf wants to 'become' a woman, they never become like any woman I know?

They never become a woman that doesn't like to wear makeup or feminine clothes.

They never become a woman that quite likes her head shaved.

They never become a woman that doesn't base who she is on what clothes she wears, what names she's called and who fucks her.

And in the name of fairness I don't see ftm imitating men that actually like pink and glitter and shoe shopping.

Transgenderism is only about 'stereotypes'.

Everyone with an ounce of common sense knows there are no such thing as 'boy brains and girl brains'.

We need some serious education to start going on in schools about the difference between unchangeable 'sex' and man made 'gender'.

I'm sorry for calling you a man, hermit. What i should have said is "you are an adult human male who is living as a girl? "

PhyllisNights

The studies are showing that almost every gynephilic transwoman (i.e. attracted to women) is also autogynephilic.

If hermit has never heard of AGP, I suspect they are not gynephilic.

find it interesting how its only ever MTF yous pick on and not FTM

FTT pose virtually no threat to women. MTT as individuals sometimes pose a threat, since their rate of criminal offending has been shown to remain the same before and after transition.

Transactivists are demanding MTT access to women's services and spaces. This poses a threat to the rights and protections of women.

Weren't people quoting that 80% of trans women are AGP? That's not something I can particularly believe. I don't see why someone would make a permanent decision to transition if it was all about a sexual fetish.

hermit

AGP stands for autogynephilia. A cross dressing fetish. Exclusive to men. And suffered by a significant proportion of transwomen. It is enhanced by being in women's intimate spaces.

It's men who are aroused by the idea of being a woman. I'm not suggesting that is you. Because I know it's not applicable to all trans women.

But it's something that women really do not want to include in their intimate spaces.

Can you understand that?

HermitTheFrog AGP stands for autogynephile; that is, men who are sexually aroused at the thought of presenting as a woman.
Some people deny that it exists, which is ridiculous as anything can be arousing.

The transgender murder rate is actually lower than for other people Hermit.
www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/5x5wn7/cmv_the_murder_rate_of_transgender_people_in_the/

hermit

You don't think it is insane for men to claim they are infertile women? Despite being fathers?

i don't know what AGP stands for sorry? could you explain

I don't believe you're a man or insane, Hermit. I believe you're a trans woman and you should be respected as that.

None of this is an easy read. I can completely understand that.

just what most of you are posting her is down right ignorant it was hard for me not to add input.

Let's talk about it then! Be specific though, otherwise points can't be addressed.

and people wonder why transgender murder rates are so high
Could you provide statistics to back your claim up, please?

what points would that be exactly? all i've seen so far is people thinking they are insulting me by calling me a man and saying i'm insane.

hermit

You said that we think all trans-people are perverts. I asked you how we would address those with AGP being in our spaces.

Do you have any suggestions?

You're passing? You are lucky.

I agree with the others regarding your cousin and her periods, I don't think you should have said that.

I can see where you're coming from regarding the alt-right, as I did think that when I started reading these threads. However, and correct me if I'm wrong, I've always see the alt-right in relation to tran issues aligned with religion. I don't think these women are coming at it from the same perspective. A number of these women are friends with trans people, and one of the posters who contributes to the discussion here is trans herself.

No one wants you to be hurt or upset, and certainly no one wants any of this to impact on tran suicides.

I honestly just want to find a solution that makes everyone happy, from all sides.

lol you are all so quick to jump to conclusions about me... i'm not a trans activist at all i actually disagree with a lot of stuff trans activists say. just what most of you are posting her is down right ignorant it was hard for me not to add input.

you all obviously have a preconceived idea of trans people and are stereotyping me with it just because well i spoke about my experience

i think it's very telling though that you are all so quick to be quite nasty and throw personal insults at me when i have't done the same to any of you.

hermit

Are you going to address any of the points we've made, by any chance? Or are you just going to call us bigots and bog off?

and people wonder why transgender murders are so high.

i'm fine as i said none of you would ever know i was born male i've been very lucky that i can live my life without being verbally abused or beat up my family accept me i have wonderful friends. due to the fact that i don't look trans i can get the jobs i want. i'm secure and happy with who i am i need no validation.

i worry for the trans people who aren't as lucky as me though who despite knowing that its obvious they was born male still put on a brave face and face the world knowing people are going to point and laugh at them and say nasty things or harm them. unless your are "convincing" and pass 100% as female or are rich then transitioning actually makes these peoples lives far worse than they would have been if they just stayed male its socially acceptable to treat trans people like a worthless piece of shit like this thread is proving.

you can throw any insult you want at me and call me a man i can handle it. but i hope you know you are contributing to the trans murder rate by keeping alive outdated stereotypes

you probably get all your information on trans people from channel 5 documentary's and news papers which only focus on the trans people who are unhinged. the rest of us just get on with our lives in stealth as i do and you'ed never know we was trans.

BigDeskBob

I think mumsnet is holding a unique position in this debate, at the moment.

It's full of educated women who know exactly what they're talking about. It's not allowed to degenerate into a mud slinging exercise. Personal attacks get deleted.

As far as I know, it's the only site where discourse can happen, based on an actual dialogue with fully informed people, without recourse to a never-ending exchange of memes, emoticons and insults.

It's also rather telling that the only transwomen who stick around, are the ones without a massive axe to grind. Transactivists always flounce.

Holding this ideology up to civilised scrutiny, only ever goes one way. Complete collapse.

Its a miracle that they found us in the first place, Datun.

Although I don't think for a single second that Hermit will come back and address any of this.