Cis labels

What do you mean by 'cis', Hont?

If it's 'biological women who prefer to be called 'she'', I'm with you.

If it's 'biological women who are stereotypically feminine/wear skirts/are ok with being discriminated against/don't mind being catcalled/want to take a paycut/believe in girlbrain/have an inner sense of their own gender whatever the fuck that is', no thanks.

I would use 'female' as the purely biological description, but 'woman' has some gender/cultural connotations with it.

Hont1986 - I agree, but the argument here is that transwomen aren't a subset of women but mentally ill men. Therefore 'cis' is unnecessary and indeed offensive because it implies that there are women who aren't 'cis'. Someone who thought gays were perverts would probably say the same about 'straight'.

Hont1986

I don't think it is. Woman isn't an identity, neither is it a description of a woman who wants to express herself using one of the 56 gender descriptors.

The 'cis' is redundant.

The word woman isn't based around how they want to see themself. It's a biological description.

FWIW Soros is a favourite target for the alt right (ie neo-nazi) pests that proliferate on twitter - I'd check very carefully before believing internet criticism of him. Very carefully. It's a bit like 'Rothschild'. See that name and you know that there's a 99% chance that it's mad antisemites spreading shit.

As for the currency manipulation example - the UK was spending a fortune to damage its own economy by keeping its currency artificially high, probably because it had become a sign of national virility. Cockwavingas economic policy. Paul Krugman had a nice line that we should put a statue up to him in Parliament Square for forcing us to stop being stupid.

But isn't a ciswoman a woman? It's just an adjective to distinguish someone as a subset of the overall classification of 'women'? As in tall woman, black woman, and so on.

I absolutely respect that, @Hont1986. But it does bother me. Why don't my feelings matter?

I am expected to respect others when they say that they identify as a woman, not a man - and I am happy to do so - so why do I not deserve the same respect when I say that I identify as a woman, not a ciswoman?

Doesn't bother me

I'm not gay, I'm straight
I'm not black, I'm white
I'm not trans, I'm cis

etc.

It is bullying. I've said it before, it feels like being in an abusive relationship felt. That gaslighting and emotional blackmail

I really agree with this.

Thank you, @venusinscorpio.

I'm a woman. I have a womb and Xx chromosomes and all the other female reproductive parts. It's not normally how I would choose to introduce myself to a bunch of strangers, but the way things are going, it might become necessary. - I wonder if The Storybots could sing a song about me?

I don't blame you SDTG sorry people are arseholes.

I chose to get involved in a discussion about the cis label, and started by saying what I have said here - that I am happy to respect the labels other people choose, but would just like the same respect, because I don't want to be labelled cis.

And then you are right - what followed was bullying and gaslighting. In the end, for my own mental health, I left the thread, unlinked the page, and blocked the nastiest people.

Did they call you cis and you objected? I think that people know full well what they are doing a lot of the time. They want to cause that reaction and deploy all the useful idiots to attack you. It is bullying. I've said it before, it feels like being in an abusive relationship felt. That gaslighting and emotional blackmail.

I got into a long and nasty discussion on FB on exactly this, today. Basically I felt bullied into silence, because I asked for the same respect that I am more than happy to give other people - the right to choose which label they want to give themselves.

I do not wish to be given the label ciswoman. I want the label woman. It is the label I have grown up with, and it is part of who I am. I do not wish to be forced into a label that is not mine.

I absolutely respect anyone else's choice of label - but apparently I do not deserve the same respect. That is the message I was given, loud and clear, on FB today.

but when we point out that a transwoman is still by definition a male, even though 'male' technically doesn't mean anything bad, we get called ignorant mis-labelling bigots.

It's because they expect to control the narrative and have other people pander to them and walk on eggshells around them. They are male, so have experienced male socialisation and are not used to be told "no". Many of them are quite clearly raging narcissists too.

read an account yesterday where a transwoman said she could tell by the looks, the body language, the topics of conversation, that she is being regarded as a man. She was very upset. But there was a lot of resentment and blame.

What exactly do TW expect other people to do about it? You can't make someone believe something that they don't. This shit should not be pandered to, it is setting up unreasonable expectations.

Ironic that if we reject being labelled 'cis' we get told 'It's just the definition of the term, if you aren't trans then you are cis, it doesn't mean anything bad', but when we point out that a transwoman is still by definition a male, even though 'male' technically doesn't mean anything bad, we get called ignorant mis-labelling bigots.

I do, however, understand that when trans are trying to discuss themselves in comparison to people biologically born with the gender they identify with, they want to be able to use some sort of term.

I think cis is used mainly so that they can just call themselves women. I think the 'trans' part upsets them so they prefer just woman, which means female people need a prefix.

I also think the TAs just say it to be cunts. But everything they do seems to be just to be a cunt, scream and stomp to get their own way on everything... and ultimately to shut up females.

I think they really do suffer if you misgender them. Because not only does no one believe they're the opposite sex, they don't really either. So their hold on the delusion is fragile. And there is a big requirement for other people to validate it in order to maintain that tenuous grip.

I read that there is a lot of shame involved which leads to narcissistic rage.

It's a real problem, genuinely, because you simply cannot force people to collude. Even if people want to, they will betray themselves.

I read an account yesterday where a transwoman said she could tell by the looks, the body language, the topics of conversation, that she is being regarded as a man. She was very upset. But there was a lot of resentment and blame.

The two youngest trans women I know seem to discuss nothing but trans. Constantly telling us to watch our language & seeming to take the most innocent comment out of context and blowing it up to be transphobic

I couldn't be arsed with people like this. Regardless of the topic nobody has the right to have someone walking on eggshells. There is a high rate of narcissistic personality disorder amongst trans people. They sound like bullys.

I remembering being at Uni and seeing an episode of Tyra that was discussing 'Is Gay The New Black?'. I do wonder if the trans movement is somewhat borrowing from feminists, black people & gays/lesbians without actually thinking of the context?

I've mentioned this example before. Oppressed monorities would take slurs and take ownership of them, but this feels very much like they've just created their own slurs against other groups.

I do, however, understand that when trans are trying to discuss themselves in comparison to people biologically born with the gender they identify with, they want to be able to use some sort of term.

Not that I'm ever going to accept the word but... I suspect that if we women did decide to 'embrace' the term "cis", they'd want it. I think all of a sudden we'd have MtTs who'd been calling themselves "trans women", now coming up with reasons why they should be called "cis women". Any hint that they're not actually us, triggers their avoidance disorder.

"The two youngest trans women I know seem to discuss nothing but trans. Constantly telling us to watch our language & seeming to take the most innocent comment out of context and blowing it up to be transphobic."
So basically - garnering all attention on themselves. They want you, their captive audience to talk about trans with them, validating them. And when you're not talking , you have to be thinking about what you say, policing it so that you don't cause offence to these precious snowflakes. Giving them a lot of headspace, whether talking to them or not. It's all about them.

That's not gender dysphoria, that's narcissism and a desire to control others.