Cis labels

I do respect you have a different opinion than me Phyllis, but yours is not based in fact and mine is. My feelings about someone born into one sex and feeling like they should be the other is that they need help and possibly treatment. I don't think that they should be able to demand that I deny biological facts in order to collude with their feelings, or that I should agree to concede hard won women's rights. I don't need another word to define me, I am a woman, an adult human female. Transwomen are a subset of men, not of women.

CharlieSierra, I am speaking my truth, not yours. Please respect that it is my opinion. You and I cannot comprehend what it must feel like for some to be born male or female and feel that they belong to a gender that is completely opposite.

Even if it could be proven that women had a particular type of brain, and trans identified males shared that brain, that wouldn't automatically make them a woman. But there is no such proof, so no question for anyone sane, rational and honest that they are anything other than male.

Transwomen are women

Well tell them that. Because the internet is heaving with transwoman looking to date cis women only. They specifically state No trans or crossdressers.
m.facebook.com/groups/349224978582927?tn=R

If, as you say they are really women , how do you explain the discrimination towards transwoman from transwoman? Why do they discriminate? Transwoman are women apparently. Yet they won't date them.

I'm not sure why anyone would believe these men are women. They don't believe it themselves ffs.

I'd use MTT.

Transwomen not being women is a statement of fact - it transcends belief.

What acronym can I use for trans-identities male? Is it TiM? MiT? MtT?

Gallavich, not at all. Trans women not being women is someone's belief

No, it isn't. Transwomen are not women by any normal widely understood definition. The definition of woman is adult human female. We all understand what type of human being this it, and that it's the one which all being well can bear offspring. In fact transwomen are women is a belief, and it's a belief with no basis in fact or biology. It's magical thinking.

That was a general point, not directed at you personally Lilac.

Don't call them transwomen. That's why we're in this situation. We should never have pandered this much. They are trans identified males. They are not a "subset of women" while women are another subset. Bullshit.

NotCaryl

The definition of a woman is an adult female. Just like girl is a child female. So in what way are transwomen real women?

They are nowhere near the same as me.

I maintain that anyone who expects people to walk on eggshells around them, for any reason, is a narcissistic arsehole. Amazing how many I've come across since discussing gender theory online. Quite a coincidence, I'm sure.

Spot on, @venusinscorpio! If someone took the huff with me because I had made a genuine and honest mistake, they wouldn't be getting any more lifts from me.

I have decided to never open my mouth again......

No, tell the silly little fools they'll be walking next time. What a nerve.

Apparently I should've known....

Yeah its all slightly ridiculous. You cam commit 'literal violence' against someone by 'assuming their gender' yet its fine to assume everyone but you is 'cis'.

Its just another teenage trend, but my fucking god its annoying. I feel sorry for those who actually do suffer sex dysphoria as all this bandwagon jumping makes it look like a bloody joke.

inaclearingstandsaboxer

I saw a meme recently that read :

If someone doesn't use your correct pronouns - it's because they're NOT your correct pronouns.

You are absolutely correct, you are not a mind reader. And for me, all this pronouns shite (that cannot be divined, and if they're that bothered about really shouldn't they inform you in advance?) is actually an attempt to produce exactly what this incident has produced - your (exasperated?) decision to "to never open my mouth again......". That's the whole shebang - to cow you into submission, to shut you up, to make you feel uncomfortable. Fuck 'em. I'd start telling them that my pronouns are 'Majesty/Master/Overlord'.

BigDeskBob, I see it as identity and what they believe themselves, how they feel.

Gallavich, not at all. Trans women not being women is someone's belief. Trans women being deviant is someone stereotyping all trans women.

I sort of roll my eyes at 56 genders. I hate to say that and I don't want to sound ignorant, but it reminds me of teenagers going through a phase like being a goth or an emo. I absolutely understand the ideology and identity between femme, butch (although, some find those terms derogatory) and being gender ambiguous, but I've seen some strange pronouns out there.

As a parent, I can see that I'm going to have to let my children explore and rebel, while trying to keep them safe. So I've promised myself I won't laugh if they declare their new genders to me.

But I'm furious when the use of puberty blockers, cross sex hormones, and surgery are talked about like its normal, safe and what is need to stay alive. These things are so very risky and life changing. And its talked about in schools without any critical discussion. Its madness.

BigDeskBob

That's right. Youth is soo esoteric and incomprehensible. Always.

They don't realise that most of the time they're just reinventing the wheel. As did we.

And I ment to add. All of that is fine when you are 15. Its a natural part of growing up. Its when the adults do it I'm

I think for some, its just a way to shock their parents or at least distance themselves from the previous generation. Its difficult to shock using music, fashion even piercings and tattoo any more. So they are using gender. I don't think they want you to know what to say, they want you to not understand them.

I have put my foot in it ( according to my daughter)

We gave her and her two friends a lift in the car. Three young women sat in the back of my car. I say

'Right ladies where am I to drop you off'

Oh dear

Apparently I offended of her friends who, even though they were wearing a short skirt make up etc, is queer.... I had not used the correct pronoun

I had offended them

No one had told me

Apparently I should've known....

I am not a mind reader .......

I have decided to never open my mouth again......

There is a difference between teenagers picking from a menu of identities, and trans-people. Trans-people generally pick one identity. That of the opposite sex. That's why it's reinforcing gender stereotypes.

All the other identities appear to me to me to do with sex and/or clothes.

One of the gender identities is, you're only interested in someone of the opposite sex for romantic reasons, for a limited period, but you might change to another identity which means you are interested in them sexually after a certain time.

So in other words you don't sleep with someone on first date.

It's just putting labels on every expression of personality in order to what? Belong? Be individual? Be important?

Call me simplistic or naive but... I am old and not down with the kids

I wonder why we have all these gender labels now?

It's the labeling of everything that really interests me ( ok the trans activist issue really concerns me though).

I think back to my youth and we had labels but they were based on music tastes and fashion statements - we had mods, rockers and punks (me) as well as other subgroups.

That part of youth culture today seems to have become homogenised therefore they are trying to find their own identity which has come out as all these different genders.

I was androgynous as a youth - I wore men's clothes and had a fabulous Mohican. When I got pregnant and obviously had a bump that caused a lot of stir. But that was a phase... I am now a boring old woman ( but still po go - ing and spitting in my head). My androgynous look was just that - a fashion statement. I had sexual relationships with both boys and girls but I always knew I was a girl. I was not offended if I was called Mr or Miss ..... And I find expect everybody else to walk on eggshells around me.

I have a gay daughter. She has a MTT friend ( no surgery) and is very pro trans. The friend is a classic narcissist and a really horrible person. I have tried to explain my concerns and I have been told I am a transphobe.

If I were a teenager today, I'd be gender fluid because that can mean pretty much anything you want it to mean. It's a perfect get out.

Furthermore, they have no idea what a woman's gender identity is (if she decides she needs one).

Yes..and assuming someones gender identity is 'actually literal violence' isn't it?