Cis labels

I'm not sure exactly when this word 'gender' instead of 'sex' happened. I've never used it, even before all this stuff kicked off, and I thought it was a bit twee when I started to see it. You see it on here all the time, 'guess the gender'. It's sex.

Totally agree nauticant, user1487175389 and JigglyTuff.

Language is vital. And the distinction between sex and gender has never been more so.

I am very deliberately - and consciously - using sex now where I previously would have probably have said gender. So 'the children are segregated by sex for PE', 'sexual equality', etc. It feels weirdly self-conscious but no one has commented that I mean gender so far

Amen to that, nauticant. More sex, less prudishness, if that's a word.

Sex sex sex

Toilets are divided according to sex.
Some schools are single sex.
The suffragettes fought so they their sex would no longer be used against them.

If there was one thing I wish I could see more of it's comments correcting the (often deliberate) mistaken use of "gender" when "sex" would be correct.

I suppose this mistaken usage started from prudery about the word "sex" but has now been hijacked in this sense of nothing must be definite, especially not words and meanings.

Having written that, it occurs to me that definitions are in effect boundaries and there are plenty of people out there who hate boundaries and believe they are there to be transgressed.

In a similar way, women have long been depicted as irrational, unreasonable, in thrall to our hormones and reproductive cycles and therefore not to be trusted with leadership - because men with their testosterone are SO rational and reasonable and such natural leaders, not starting wars or committing other acts of great violence and stupidity on a regular basis...

I've mentioned it before on here, but a perfect example of this is the Bear Grylls island thingummy - the USA men-only version. They were great at getting fire going, hunting something for dinner etc, but falling apart with the emotional side of it. So much willy-waving getting in the way of getting things done, and those struggling emotionally just became arseholes/violent/wandered off leaving group worried/etc. One guy cries and gets angry telling them to turn the cameras off so his kids don't see him "like this". He's exhausted, and lying on the ground crying but starts threatening the others with a hunting knife when they get near. It was quite interesting how the more "modern" (for want of a better word) men were more thoughtful and emotionally literate and able to cope and help diffuse these situations. I suppose in daily life these men hae women to do that for them.

Despite the reputation that radical feminists have as being a load of man-haters, I've never seen anything as nasty written about men by women as I have seen written about women by men

This is so true Oleanna and it's a sign of how deep the rot goes in society at large that supposedly being a "man-hating feminist" is a sneering put-down while being a misogynist isn't really negative at all. Because misogyny isn't even really acknowledged as a thing. Because, pfft, women.

In a similar way, women have long been depicted as irrational, unreasonable, in thrall to our hormones and reproductive cycles and therefore not to be trusted with leadership - because men with their testosterone are SO rational and reasonable and such natural leaders, not starting wars or committing other acts of great violence and stupidity on a regular basis... oh wait...

Sorry, bit of a tangent into general feminist stuff there - but then I do think the still vastly inferior status of women is at the root of all this transactivist MRA shit. They would never have made the gains they have or received such widespread support without their inherent male privilege.

Great point Choc and Prawn. The truth about the murder stats and the stats for female BME prostitutes is one of the things we need to get out there to counter the misinformation.

Yes, I've noticed that, Choc. The one that probably annoys me the most is the frequent claims of a sky high murder rate for MTTs. This is almost entirely due to BME prostitutes, and the murder rate for female BME prostitutes is even higher.

The typical white middle aged fetishist is of no more risk of attack than any other white middle aged bloke, but they strap on BME and sex work to make themselves look threatened.

Speaking of the human shield, anything that's written from a TA you'll notice that it'll never be 'affects trans people' it'll always be trans and some other group - trans and women of colour, trans and gay, trans and poor etc.

They are experts at attaching themselves to other people's oppression.

Yes, it was pretty stupid. I have a friend who keeps a record of spectacularly dim things I've done. They didn't know about such things when I was a kid, but I think I'm quite dyspraxic. I once painted myself into a corner.

Bloody hell Prawn - that was a lucky escape! (Not for your phone, mind you...!)

Some gay men find women physically repulsive, hence the frequently misogynist undercurrent in gay culture (including drag). Despite the reputation that radical feminists have as being a load of man-haters, I've never seen anything as nasty written about men by women as I have seen written about women by men

@Prawnofthepatriarchy - you win MN today!

Prawn!

I'm glad you asked, STDGis. I've been wondering whether to start a thread on Chat: "Stupid ways you've wrecked appliances" perhaps?

I was watching a video while cooking. Someone spoke to me, I stopped the video, turned round and, when I looked back, my phone had disappeared. I tried the loo, the living room... No sign. Shrugged. I'm not the tidiest person. I'll find it later.

Then the oven timer went off. I took my quiche out of the oven and there, on the baking tray, was my phone. 15 minutes at Gas 7. Utterly, utterly trashed. Even the SIM. I'd laid it down, and casually popped it in.

DS2 tells me I was extremely lucky the battery, which was all puffed up, didn't explode. Trying to put a positive slant on things, I pointed out that I might have got a new kitchen from the insurance. He replied gravely that I would have gone up with the battery, seeing where I was standing.

GuardianLions, thank you! I haven't really used forums since I was a teenager, so I've found it quite hard to assimilate to the culture of MN, but I think I'm getting there!

Since using the trans threads on MN, I feel like I've got more of a broader and independent understanding of trans as a whole.

Never mind all this trans trivia - how on earth did you manage to bake your phone?

Monkey, I did a special trawl and found the sad story of the transman who was raped by a taxi driver and couldn't believe he carried on even when she explained her male gender identity.

I lost all my phone bookmarks after a highly unusual fatal phone event. I baked it.

Ah Phyllis I have to admit that to start off with i thought you were a troll. Now I realise you have been badly gaslighted.

PhyllisNights

Thanks for that. There was a whole thread on here a few months ago analysing drag from a feminist's viewpoint. Not everyone thought the same.

And yes, I believe fish is meant as a slur.

I believe that's where it's taken from. I'm not entirely sure. It's mostly words and terminology that I see them use online.

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ashley-clarke/rupals-drag-race_b_4957651.html

This is quite a good read.

I thought fish referred to women's downstairs odour

Gallavich & Prawn, thank you for that.

There are people who feel that gay marriage is taking away from their rights, which I can't understand at all.

In my experience, I've found drag queens to be the most offensive to women. Not on a rights issue, and I know it's a performance act, but some of the terminology and the things they come out with is horrific. Some gay men, for whatever reason, can be very misogynistic. It's language like "fish" which means a drag queen has a close resemblance to looking feminine, or 'hunty' (hunny + cunt) which is a term of endearment they use amongst the community.

On a lighter note... still ROFLing at NotCaryl proclaiming:

"I am a radical feminist"

It's going back up the thread a bit but I just wanted to say how much I agree with venus and Rogue on this point:

It is bullying. I've said it before, it feels like being in an abusive relationship felt. That gaslighting and emotional blackmail

A thousand times this.

RogueBiscuit, I'm not surprised that you are still angry. I heard an episode of the 'listening project' this week where a girl, I think she was 9, was being praised for being nice and kind and putting others before herself. And I do think its something I have to keep an eye on, having both a boy and girl. I want them both to be good people, of course. But I'm conscious that I don't want my daughter to feel she has to sort out everybody else's problems, especially at her own expense.