Rape 'jokes'. Wtf is wrong with some people?

I think the above post about "rape rape" and 1 in 3 college study are spot on. There is definitely a disconnect between what some men think is rape. One way this manifests is that there is still a nudge, nudge, wink, wink attitude coercion or taking advantage of a situation. Even if in humour only. The joke in the OP being a classic example. I will be honest and say that until recently i myself (a man) may have made a similar crass comment as the man in the OP.

Hopefully times are changing and pulling up the man telling the "joke", is exactly the right approach. Although this chap reacted badly, that doesn't mean he didn't go away, think about it and realise he was/is a knob.

Men definitely joke to each other in a "i hope you get raped" way too.

Men rape each other, too.

Doesn't mean it is okay that they do it to women. Neither the rapes nor the jokes.

Personally, I have never heard a man joke about planning to rape a man, but have heard men joke about getting women drunk to rape them.

The "are rape jokes funny" debate is a hardy perennial appearing in Edinburgh.

Adrienne Truscott made her entire show rape jokes one year. Her starting point is her routine focuses on the act and the aggressor not the victim.

She appears as a character rather than herself in a costume of blonde wig, high heels, denim jacket over a bra and nothing else. I didn't see it so don't know if her show was effective ; which might be a more accurate and acceptable description, than "funny". Placing it in the theatre/ performance art section of the Fringe programme rather than comedy might have been better too.

Adrienne Truscott: Asking for It | Edinburgh Festival
edinburghfestival.list.co.uk/article/63533-adrienne-truscott-asking-for-it/

Dodo if you reduce both cases to their most basic meaning one mean "i want to rape(you)" the other means "don't get raped". And that's why they are not "the same".

Men definitely joke to each other in a "i hope you get raped" way too.

Lass's joke is the equivalent of the Not the Nine O Clock news sketch about the policemen who were discussing the arrest of the black man for 'loitering with intent at a pedestrian crossing.'

My ex told me the Carr the 9 out of 10 rape joke along the lines of I don't like rape jokes but found this one funny. He did indeed coerce me into having sex when I was very vulnerable. But he would adamantly refuse to see himself as a rapist because he loves women and is quite the feminist himself. Talk about male privilege, the 'charming' man has in in bucket loads.

I think young men should see rape jokes as offensive as racist jokes. Neither are funny.

I think rape jokes are just normal for some men and they need it pointed out to them that it's not funny. I just don't laugh and they feel like a dick because I laugh at anything!!

I got a lot of 'just joking', holding me down, telling me it's going to happen type jokes from my dh which are tedious but nothing's ever gone further. I don't know if men actually find it funny or just enjoy showing you their strength and your vunurability without actually being abusive.

The comedians like Boyle normalise it so it can end up that we (the women not finding it funny) are seen as joyless fuckers, unable to appreciate that kind of humour . Fucking 'banter' has a lot to answer for!

Yeah - Lasses quoted comment wasn't a joke in any way - no-one reading that would have laughed, male or female. It provoked a grim jaw gritting in me for example. More like a terrible version of an Aesop's fable.

Very much so, Vestal.

I think other men should challenge as they should show how abhorrent they think rape and rape "jokes" are by explaining to other men why they do. I do object in some circumstances but generally now I just "unfriend" the boys who do it online or if at a party just reluctantly walk away.

Jokes about rape are one thing. They may be tasteless, but they are still jokes.

But most "rape jokes" are just men openly saying that they would rape, and women are supposed to laugh nervously because we are not to treat men like rapists, even if they admit they are rapists.

It is safest to assume that a man who says he would rape, would rape, and act accordingly.

I don't even bother calling them out. It is very nice of them to tell me that they're rapists, why would I discourage honesty?

Oh Scoot "those comedians" are big, mainstream names on the comedy circuit. Carr and Boyle sell out large venues.

No sure why the rape joke Lass?

If you mean what I quoted it isn't a joke as such. It is an observation on the absurdity of making rape jokes. It wasn't credited in The Guardian article but I think it originated from a female comedian.

The article by Tanya Gold was prompted by a particularly bad year at the Edinburgh Fringe. I remember reading it at the time. Morons like Carr and Boyle validate the thinking of the boys Amy is referring to.

I'm maybe though, so small mercies.

Boys think rape jokes are hilarious. Being Facebook friends with very well educated boys, I have seen so many rape memes since I was about 14.

My boyfriend goes to a very famous public school. The boys in my year (year 12) have a "list" of girls who go to my school and another girls' school near them. The list is "pass", "maybe" and "would rape". They're the future.

No sure why the rape joke Lass? I think we all agree rape, and rape jokes aren't funny. I haven't seen either of those comedians and certainly shan't in the future if that's their sort of thing.

The joke below is from the comments on the Tanya Gold article. I think it might qualify as acceptable.

I despise "comedians" like Carr and Boyle ; particularly Boyle with his ranting, right-on, virtue- signalling, Tory hating nonsense.

Somethings really are not suitable joke material - sexual abuse, cruelty to children or animals. The apologists for this type of "humour" invariably drag The Producers and The Life of Brian in to try to prove no subject should be taboo for humour.

It doesn't work; it simply shows that if you combine a considerable amount of talent with a lack of malice it is in rare circumstances possible to be funny with problematic material.

Bloke fancies himself as a comedian so he secures a gig at the prestigious Edinburgh Festival, gets up on stage and tells a shedload of rape jokes. No-one laughs.
As he doesn’t get paid that night he has to walk home in the dark and on the way he gets ambushed by this group of masked sadists, dragged into the bushes, repeatedly anally penetrated and left there in his own blood and excrement like a discarded pile of junk.
Next thing he knows, it’s daylight and there’s this policeman standing over him. Sobbing with distress he tells the copper that he was brutally raped last night. But the cop sneers with contempt and doesn’t believe him and instead tells him to fxxxing move on or he’ll arrest him for being a drunken vagrant.
As the bloke pulls up his pants and hobbles off in a shivering wretched suicidal state, he says to himself: “Hmmm…no wonder they didn’t find it funny!”

Damn, where's the edit function when you need it? Of course Edwards et al are testing something slightly different - how many men would rape if they could be guaranteed to get away with it, rather than how many actually do (in the knowledge that they will, with overwhelming probability, get away with it).

Actually, it is replicated elsewhere - it's the same methodology as David Lisak uses (though interestingly, his findings are slightly different - describing the actions, e.g. "holding down" without using the word rape elicits a 6% rate of men admitting to committing acts meeting the legal definition of rape, but when he uses the word "rape" the percentage only falls to 5% - i.e. most rapists know exactly what they're doing but don't care - if they don't think they will get caught, they will happily commit rape in the knowledge that it is rape). This is one of Lisak's papers, with a sample size of just over 1800, from which 120 men's self-reported acts met the legal definition of rape. (A much bigger sample size than Edwards et al as reported in the Jezebel article).

I read an article a while ago about a psychology experiment where a % of men admitted to a range of activities that I would call rape (eg holding women down and coercing them to have sex), but once they word rape was used they denied it. I've just googled trying to find it again and found this:
jezebel.com/1-in-3-college-men-admit-they-would-rape-if-we-dont-ca-1678601600

It seems to be a tiny sample and not replicated anywhere, but it strikes me that these kind of rape jokes fall into that category. Your ex-friend didn't use the word rape, but described a non consensual sexual act, and then was angry when you rightly pointed out that he was joking about rape. It's a fairly scary cognitive dissonance, isn't it?

Dodo if you reduce both cases to their most basic meaning one mean "i want to rape(you)" the other means "don't get raped". And that's why they are not "the same".

I was thinking about the "don't pick up the soap" jokes in connection with this thread - but I'm not sure they are the same. The "don't pick up the soap" jokes always strike me as being of the classic type of "humour to defuse fear" kind. The rape jokes about women victims, on the other hand (see the article Lass links to) seem more like racist jokes, intended to bond one group of people together over their shared hatred of another group of people. (The one exception would be the "backs to the wall" type of joke about gay men being raped, which I think do share the same underlying hatred as the jokes about women victims - but again, because they're driven by hatred, homophobia rather than misogyny. It's about a bunch of bullies ganging together to laugh about sexual violence against their chosen group of victims.)

I don't have an answer, but interestingly, it's not limited to jokes about women. The "jokes" about men getting raped in prison, picking up the soap in the shower, etc. are extremely common.
It doesn't seem to matter whether it's females or males they're upsetting in many ways.
I have heard such "jokes" as best pickup line being chloroform or rohypnol and similar, but not too many from professional comedians.

I have never heard rape jokes in my life. MN is the first place I heard of it

The unspeakable Frankie Boyle has made rape jokes about Rebecca Adlington and Katie Price as part of his stand up routine.

The equally unspeakable Jimmy Carr does too.

amp.theguardian.com
www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/aug/17/heard-one-about-rape-funny-now

I have not been and never will be at their shows. I have not in real life heard rape jokes.

Interesting question, Sail. I think when men tell rape jokes in male company, rather than to women, they are looking for validation that "all men are just like me, just some don't have the balls to put it into practice". However (because men rarely live at the level of defcon 3 when it comes to the threat of sexual assault, the way women typically do), the men listening to the jokes may not realise that's why they're being told and just put it down as a deliberately tasteless joke - then re-tell it, out of stupidity rather than for sinister motives. I think though that you're spot on that the acid test then becomes: how do they react when a woman calls them out on it? As you say, if they're decent blokes just doing something stupid from a position of ignorance then they'll immediately realise they've been an arse and apologise. It's the ones who get angry, or who simply repeat the joke over and over, smugly watching you get more upset, who are the ones who should set alarm bells ringing.

Glad we both agree that your ex friend was up to something creepy and boundary pushing.

Another thing that drives me mad is advice to women to "have a drink or ten wink wink" when someone is unsure/ needs advice about trying something new sexually.