Pink brains and blue brains

Miffer

Strangely enough, my PMT was always better when I was at work than if I was at home. DH could trigger it like there's no tomorrow, whereas my best friend, not so much.

Having said that, there is no doubt I had PMT. It would turn me into a demented harridan. I could feel the seething irritation seeping through me.

Perhaps it's something that is always at a certain level and a particular set of circumstances triggers it further.

Being post menopause, I can safely say, hand on heart, I never, ever get it.

I'm a model of diplomacy and effervescent sainthood.

KindDogsTail

I don't disagree, I would go further than you in fact. However the menstrual cycle stuff rings totally false especially when you attach behaviours like tidying and shopping to it.

women who were misled to believe they were premenstrual experienced more symptoms of PMS than those who were actually premenstrual but who were misled to believe they were not.

I stopped at that part if the article Miffer because it seemed a bit odd that you could mislead a woman to that extent. I don't doubt however that cultural attitudes do influence the experience of PMS.

What I was talking about before though was not PMS in the negative sense.

However enormous the effects of gender stereotyping are, nothing is going to make me think that because men and women are equal, they are identical in all ways. I do think that biology makes a difference. How much is the very interesting question.

That's interesting Assasin that you did not notice any differences like that.

In many ways women's cycles can trigger massive surges of creativity at certain points too. Probably a lot of misdiagnoses of bi-polar come from not understanding it.

I'll read that article Miffer.

Wow, I had only skimmed that article when I posted it but the history is really interesting. PMS seems to have its roots in hysteria. Worth looking into properly.

No, I don't tidy or shop at different points in my cycle. I get a little ratty in the classic PMT sense, but that doesn't change my behaviours beyond having to bite my tongue a little more than usual.

I had no nesting urges with either pregnancy.

www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2016/11/pms_might_be_a_cultural_syndrome_not_a_biologic_one.html

Food for thought.

I absolutely don't notice a difference in my behaviour in the way you describe depending on my "cycle". Also the nesting instinct didn't kick in with me, in fairness both my kids were prem so maybe that's why.

Evo pysch is such a load of retconned untestable bullshit anyway.

What Assassinated? Do you not find you behave in different ways at different times of a cycle? Here is another behaviour I didn't mention too: www.theguardian.com/uk/2006/oct/11/science.fashion
Have you not heard of 'nesting' at a certain phase of pregnancy?

Different phases of menstrual cycles for example can set up particular behaviours, such as frenzied house tidying

I wish. I need some of them hormones.

What? Your menstrual cycle makes you tidy or shop? Is that an actual science thing, or just your own observations?

I am sure there are gender stereotypes we impose on our children.

Nevertheless I do not believe biological sex has no effect on how men and women behave. We have no problem seeing a difference between the behaviours of the different sexes in animals, even in the wild, where there can have been no influencing their behaviour.

Different phases of menstrual cycles for example can set up particular behaviours, such as frenzied house tidying or shopping sprees for certain things which seem essential at the time. Or what about the nesting urge before having a baby? These show themselves as behaviours often called 'female'.

Human male 'rutting' surely finds expression in things like bigger better cars.

Yesterday, for the first time ever my toddler dd asked me if something was "for boy's". I'm trying to bring her up not to see things that way but it's so hard when nearly everyone else is saying otherwise.

I am having issues with DH and this at the moment. Its causing a hell of a lot of arguments. DS (2) keeps asking for a barbie kinder egg. Fuck knows why there are pink and blue kinder eggs anyway but thats besides the point. DH keeps telling him no, that the superhero one is for boys. Its doing my fucking head in so much. Why can't the ppor lad have a bloody barbie kinder egg. DH has no problem with DD picking the superhero one instead of barbie though when she choses to

I haven't got the references to hand, sorry, but a fab book 'Shattered' The Illusion of Gender Equality in Parenting or some similar title covers some of the anthropological theory in the first chapter. It hypothesises - or refers to the hypothesis - that mothers 'mother' boys to create dependency. This is in preparation for when they become a father, are dependent on their wife and thus unlikely to stray when she's pregnant, physically dependent on the father and vulnerable to abandonment. None of which is relevant to the contemporary society, of course, but I thought it interesting as a representation of socialisation over biology. Wife Work too is very interesting for similar reasons.

Whoput

My professor said that every developed nation followed a similar pattern. Womens "lib" changing expectations > Women start to have careers > the generation that follows starts trouncing the boys at school. By the way I keep saying "My professor said" because I didn't actually fact check him but rather just trusted his info so I cant cite sources.

Slightly off topic (though not totally) as it is to do with stereotypes.

I get irritated with talk of the feminisation of education e.g. how girls are now doing better than boys in many subjects because they are conscientious and do their homework whereas boys are 'sudden death" exam merchants.

Being really ancient I took the 11+ exam in the mid 1950s - a sudden death exam. Guess what? Because girls did better and a roughly 50/50 split of boys/girls was wanted in grammar schools the pass mark was set higher for girls than boys to achieve the 50/50.

To me that just illustrates what a crock of shit this 'girls are like this, boys are like that' is.....

NB: this is well documented. A google search might still bring up the details.

I thought the pain threshold was a myth but we had a higher number of pain receptors or something? Anyway your main point (that women have physical advantages of our own) is well taken.

Miffer, I believe women have physical advantages. We have a higher pain threshold and better colour vision. We endure harsh conditions - heat, cold - better. There are others but those were the first I remembered. And now I'm worried I've misremembered because I'm in a hurry, and because I have problems cut n pasting on my new phone.

With my baby son who is obsessed with vehicles, i think - did i socialise him to like them? Or is it just his preference? Certainly I've made no effort to encourage him in that direction. He likes the vroom noises, which i can't relate to at all.

I certainly don't want to be one of those mothers that don't let girls access feminine stuff or boys access masculine stuff. I just want a good balance available for each of them. It's hard.

Prawn

Maybe, I did bring up the issues around masculinity but I was focused on the research into working class/West Indian boys. His counter to this was we see the patterned mirrored across all ethnic groups (with some exception ie Bangladeshi girls who have specific barriers), classes and internationally.

From my frivolous point of view it would seem odd that men have a physical advantage but we are otherwise equal in all other senses.

We bought DD a garage for her first birthday because at the time she was obsessed with cars. Some family members raised eyebrows but she loved it and I've always been a 'toys are for everyone' kind of person.

A few years later, DS was around 11 months old and was fascinated with cars and trucks and I remember thinking "oh, I wonder if it's because he's a boy" completely forgetting that DD was exactly the same at that age.

I thought I was immune to that kind of crap, but I was wrong.

If it's connected to socialization, Miffer, I wonder if it has anything to do with the arrogance of toxic masculinity. Men are brought up to challenge authority, which may predispose them not to knuckle down and just learn stuff.

Men tend to assume they know better, even when they know very little. We see it so often it's even got a name - mansplaining. Women are more humble, eager to learn and aware of their ignorance, so more open to learning. What do you think?

Thanks for that, Datun. I do hope so, and I hope they'll be as happy as I was with their DF.

I had a professor at Uni (a Russell Group Uni no less) who maintained that the reason girls now out performed boys educationally was because they were better at learning. He said no other explanation made sense. He wasn't a self described feminist, his specialty was education. I can expand on his reasoning if anybody is interested.

At the time I was lib femmy and outraged by this but I couldn't fault his logic (I tried very hard). It was a while ago now so who knows? It did make me think though.

I suppose my point is that I am entirely open to the idea that there is more to socialisation at play when it comes to behavioural and cognitive differences between the sexes. The problem isn't that we are different, the problem is the view that one set of characteristics are superior.

Yesterday, for the first time ever my toddler dd asked me if something was "for boy's". I'm trying to bring her up not to see things that way but it's so hard when nearly everyone else is saying otherwise.

Though the item in question was a pink hat so she hasn't exactly got the 'rules' right yet!

The one thing they have in common, and which isn't true of most of their friends, is very long term girlfriends to whom they are devoted.

That's your influence, right there prawn.

I also have two sons. Both brought up in exactly the same way. Both polar opposites of one another. I've jokingly assured them on many occasions that they do have the same father!

And I agree, although it is sometimes like a salmon swimming upstream when they go to school, feminists can indeed influence their menfolk's attitude to women.