Feminism in prehistoric times / primitive culture

I'm glad MN have left this thread up Bullshit evo-psych is an important thing to counter. I think it's basically a lack of the sense of the sweep of history that causes these people to think everything before, I dunno, the Romans was some kind of static idealised picture that happens to suit their own political preferences (you see this tendency in some of the primal dieting stuff as well), and this is why I think prehistory should be taught in schools. It's not necessarily people's fault that they don't get the complexity of deep history.

My thoughts on this particular topic aren't very formed but it's fascinating. If anyone's interested I can recommend this book on one small aspect of this topic - it focusses on the early textile trade in the Mediterranean, roughly late Neolithic into Bronze Age. It is of course focussed on settled, sedentary societies, so not hunter-gatherers (which is usually what people like the OP mean when they fling round the word "primitive"). It's basically an example of a gendered division of a particular industry where, a lot of the time, we actually have not much idea what the dominating power structures were, because a lot of this is pre-writing. It could have been these women operated within a patriarchal power structure, or could have been otherwise.

Basically, a division of labour (along ANY lines, not just gender-constructed) has been a feature of many societies, sedentary, mobile and somewhere between the two, but it's the automatic equation of gendered divisions of labour with today's particular political arrangements that marks someone out as a bit hard of thinking. But you all know all this.

whereyouleftit the nerdy social misfit/unattractive (and completely shallow) guy who gets the uber hot 'it girl' often by making her rethink her (shallow) preference for attractive men to see him only for who he is on the inside' is a highly recurrent theme. Think the Frog Prince, Beauty and the Beast, Cerano de Bergerac... my feeling us that it these stories have historically been made up to make girls and women feel better about being 'given away' as child brides or other arranged marriages to men they feel repulsed at the thought of having to touch.

It is also a theme in many teen movies and a main stay of porn. Ron Jeremy, although being attractive to some women, is an unlikely porn star to appeal to women's preferences, and he got the (male-fantasy ideal) choice of all the 'hottest' women.

Female sexual preferences have been pretty much edited out of male-dominated culture in favour of male fantasy in a patriarchal world. These young misogynists are seething because they didn't get allocated the 'hot', highly-sexed, willing to be used and abused women that patriarchal culture led them to expect and feel entitled to.

'Shallow' in this instance being doublespeak for understanding your value as a person

Exactly where: I'm so tired of the "beautiful woman learns to be less shallow* and chooses man who is nice/intelligent over man who is rich and good looking" trope.
Even though the "nice" intelligent man is himself being just as shallow by lusting over the beautiful, popular girl in the first place.

*I have never though that being sexually attracted to people you find attractive is shallow.

TV and films have a lot of frankly unattractive men having sex with gorgeous women

Absolutely!
I see this all the time, presume the aim is to sell the program, film, product etc by flattering the male audience
Men just lap it up and don't seem to understand how unrealistic it is

Do you think the media adds to their sense of entitlement? TV and films have a lot of frankly unattractive men having sex with gorgeous women. Off the top of my head:

• The Big Bang Theory : creepy Howard, mute Raj and frankly stalkerish Leonard.
• Beauty and the Geek
• Knocked Up ( Seth Rogen, Katherine Heigl)

I'm sure there are more. And then they find out that in real life, beautiful women - any women, really - shows no interest in them. Wouldn't take long for their resentment to seep through, repelling anyone who might have given them a second look .

must be completely egalitarian in which men they fuck so as not to deprive any poor men of their right to sex

Oh yes the anger when can't get sex, how unfair it is when women will have sex with certain men but not others.
As if women's first duty is to take care of mens feelings and should share themselves equally, as women are a resource which should be available to all, like free health care.

"I always wonder who exactly they think they'd have sex with if that scenario played out for real."

I suspect that for many of them, in an ideal world there would be two types of women.

The future wives, who stay virginal and pure until their wedding day, who later morph into perfect cookie-baking-never-complaining mother Earth types. These would be always happy, there to uphold the reputation of their husband and bear children - because they're not people, just walking wombs/status symbols.

And the "dirty" women, there to satisfy the men's sexual need in the meantime, who must be completely egalitarian in which men they fuck so as not to deprive any poor men of their right to sex. These women would be despised, but fucked anyway, and fair game to any mistreatment - because they're not people, just holes.

I always wonder who exactly they think they'd have sex with if that scenario played out for real.

I suppose they haven't given much thought to it.

They sure aren't happy if they're rejected by even just one woman.

In theory, homosexuality would solve all their problems with us evil women, but for some reason, they don't seem very keen on trying that.

I will never understand misogyny. What on earth is it that women do to make that happen?

Literally nothing. Men want to protect their privileged positions without having to do anything at all. Like people complaining about immigration bringing skills to the country.

I will never understand misogyny. What on earth is it that women do to make that happen?

It has to be an internal feeling of resenting what you can't have.

On that poster abstinence is the make last choice but the first female option which rather sums up the whole attitude doesn't it?
Men should be able to have lots of sex without responsibility but you women should keep your legs shut.
I always wonder who exactly they think they'd have sex with if that scenario played out for real.

I don't really see this guy effectively running my tribe. Most of the MRAs don't seem built for manual labour ime.

The world is a glorious utopia because of men, we all live like ancient kings.

'Cos we all have it so easy our infant lady brains have made us emerge, like pink deer blinking in the sparkling wonder and create feminism.

The Men say "tsk, Silly Pink Deer, go have babies and wash clothes, I have to Invent Useful Things and Create Art AND Work in a sewage mine, cos reasons"

Silly Pink Deer skips on merrily and poos on good manly stuff.

Twice.

That's what I got out of it.

"Odd range of forums too."
Just trying to spread his wisdom as far as he can . Actually, I've still to read the little scrote's megapost. I got sooooo bored soooooo quickly I just CBA.

We need a fembot!

Best case scenario, bored fuckwit, worst case scenario, a bot spewing venom.

Are all the threads then same or is it just women he doesn't like?

So weird.
Odd range of forums too. Money saving expert?
Is it some kind of crap social experiment?

Ah yes, the utopia created by Men, lovely jubbly. Entire species on the verge of extinction, countries bombed to oblivion 'cos of willy waving, coral reef fucked, yep, doing a fine old job.

6 threads and counting? He really is a sad little twat.

For my sins I watch Naked And Afraid. What shines out is that the people they pick, especially the men, are generally quite sexist and stuck in their ways. Often the men are over-confident in their skills, or take foolish risks (I've only seen crazy risk-taking from one woman).

When it comes to laziness and ability, both women and men seem evenly matched, although I've seen more men be sent home for injuring themselves through stupid behaviour (cutting themselves with machete by hacking away without care, drinking unclean water, eating long-dead animals) than women. When it comes to being left alone if their partner gets sent home, again, they seem fairly evenly matched about how well that is dealt with.

What that says to me is that people are all different, but in a primitive situation, your skills and mental strength matter much more than your sex.

I haven't read them, but as well as mn and the athiest forum, the OP also posted here:
forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=72389308
Here: www.debatepolitics.com/off-topic-discussion/283471-feminism-prehistoric-times-primitive-culture.html
Here: thepoliticsforums.com/threads/80389-Feminism-in-prehistoric-times-primitive-culture?p=1393714
And here: www.city-data.com/forum/politics-other-controversies/2747911-feminism-prehistoric-times-primitive-culture-3.html

I like how OP dares the posters on the atheist forum to go through his* long ramble post and refute each point in it. As though he thinks it's got some kind of factual merit

*Even though OP says he's a woman on the other thread, I can't imagine anything but a sad little man behind this shite with mummy issues

All reality TV is heavily skewed by ... what kind of people are they able to convince that this is a good idea?