Do you think some of the driver for "a woman is anyone who says they are a woman" is to do with bad science teaching in the US?

you believe that those morons represent the entire community.

It wasn't feminists who wanted to include morons in the trans-ideology. Or cross dressing fetishists, autogynephiles, chancers, voyeurs or predators.

Nope, I don't remember feminists drawing up a list of every lowlife in the country and deciding that they could be trans.

'Anyone who says they are trans is trans' said no feminist ever.

Ooh nice move www.mumsnet.com/emo/te/x4.gif.pagespeed.ic.-btgXlP15N.png

For clarity, my argument is that lack of scientific understanding about things like what a species is and how Linnean classification works, is preventing people from engaging in a meaningful discussion about how to define a woman.

You are very smart aren't you. I'm trying to have a 'meaningful discussion' with you right now, but am being met with snarky comments. I want to understand what goes through your mind and why you feel so strongly about other people's genitals and what they do with their lives, because I think it's kinda weird.

Oh Quentin, we could have a coffee and a debrief sometime. Energy healing by email ftw?

I'd honestly like to know what people in this thread would do if they had a child who claimed they were transgender. Support them and do everything you can to make them happy, or the opposite, resulting in them cutting you out of their life or killing themself.

'id take them to therapy and fix them' doesn't work all of the time

I'm just gonna turn on that imaginary block poster option tbh.

Ha, chat bots!!

It's really offensive to claim people with a medical issue aren't "real men/women". And it's totally irrelevant to transgender people who's chromosomes and genitalia match. Intersex people aren't intersex based on a feeling/identity.

I was pointing out that your argument is the one that states people with chromosome disorders aren't 'real men/women'. Transgender people aren't transgender based on just feeling/identity either, to be honest. It's a very complex psychological issue. People who claim to be trans cause 'I feel like today I'm a woman' aren't trans, but you people are so dense and uninformed you believe that those morons represent the entire community.

Chromosomes help define sex not gender.

I agree there is plenty of confusion over the difference between sex and gender. I always say sex, or biological sex in humans (mammals) is about reproducing bodies. These two bodies have the capacity to reproduce, these two bodies don't. This includes intersex people who might have different reproductive function BASED ON SEXUAL DIFFERENCE. Also even if you were unconscious, or a giraffe, with no conception of gendered stereotypes you could still wake up pregnant. Unavoidable objective fact that is no different whether you understand the biology of it or not.

That thread reminds me of conversations I've had with otherwise intelligent people I know who live in Brighton, where genders is rife along with all sorts of other woo and quackery.

Swyer syndrome?

Anyway, what does intersex have to do with the op or any post apart from your whataboutery?

SSR, yes, there are some people who have genetic conditions that result in intersex conditions. That doesn't negate the fact that someone's sex can be determined by their genetics though. It also doesn't mean that a MTT can become female or that a FTT can become male.

I did get accused of being a horrible person once for stating biological facts, however I'm certainly not the only one.

No, indeed. I got this in Germany, by university students. German schools have very high standards. There is no doubt this person knew the scientific facts, she just chose to selectively forget them for the duration of the conversation. (But certainly remembered them in time to take her contraception pill)

Turner syndrome is a syndrome of girls, it only affects females, so I'm not quite sure why that is being referrenced?

If you have just x, regardless of how many, you are genetically female.

If you have one or more y, regardless of how many, you are genetically male.

Anything but XX or XY is "intersex", but they still aren't actually a third sex. It's not hard.

Why is it always about bloody men wanting to be women? Why can't anybody that fancies it be a man?

They do and they can, I'm right here.

People only focus on MtF's because they like to call them rapists and perverts.

*Sex, ssr.

Chromosomes define sex*

Turner syndrome? Klinefelter syndrome? Androgen insensitivity?

Why is it always about bloody men wanting to be women? Why can't anybody that fancies it be a man?

Ssr. It's sex not gender.