Gender neutral toilets at the Barbican London

Well done Samirah for raising this publicly.

There have been a few threads on mumsnet about this since i joined a few months ago ( not me that started them like) and you get the usual moaners signalling how pragmatic and superior they are, because they don't have a problem with this, they have a no nonsence approach to toilets , and they share a toilet at home with men you see and that's exactly the same! My goodness all this fuss over a loo!

But once the questions start, why now? Why womens toilets? Who does this benefit? Are women and young girls asking for this? And once people start making their many valid points, their argument falls apart and they can't answer the questions so just carry on repeating themselves.

Some people seem to be completely unable to put their own feelings aside and remember what it was like to be a young girl out alone starting periods or not, or understand how women who have been attacked might feel.

Quite right PoochSmooch!
There'll be gender neutral toilets before changing places for people with disabilities.

Semira - thanks for tweeting about this Hope you don't get a dreaded BBC warning or experience no-platforming

they have gender neutral toilets in the Everyman cinemas usually and have done for years. Never found it to be a problem at all. Its all cubicles so no one sees anything of anyone else except in the hallway anyway.

Have you read my post? Do you think only cinemas that have enough money to build spacious cubicles with washbasins inside should be allowed to stay in business?

Maybe naicely dressed small/elderly/infirm women should resign themselves to Tena for theatre visits?

they have gender neutral toilets in the Everyman cinemas usually and have done for years. Never found it to be a problem at all. Its all cubicles so no one sees anything of anyone else except in the hallway anyway.

Some female pro-trans "feminists" who acknowledge that women do not want to be in confined spaces with males propose as the solution the individual, lockable cubicle with washbasin.

That is all nice and good if the location has the space.

But not all do.

And with limited resources, I still prefer the tiny cubicle / larger sex segregated space outside combination to ... well, tiny cubicles with no segregated space outside.

Women want to have fun. (I say that as actual, no-fun-feminist.) Some women want to go to reenactment festivals and wear hooped skirts which requires a sex segregated space outside the toilet cubicles to hoist up or get out of completely.

Should those fun activities be banned because those organising them can't afford private cubicles of the size of a small bedroom?

That is ridiculous.

How do you squat whilst also holding your trousers up so they don't get wet on the pee below, whilst also trying not to stand in it and making sure that your bags are up off floor level but also not going to get pinched?

Do you want advice for squatting in the wilderness, or for squatting over a loo?

Okay, loo first:

Bags: I use a backpack. Women's loos often have hooks you can use for your handbag, or at least they do, here. But if you expect to encounter adverse conditions, always opt for a backpack.

Trousers: The dirty floor problem is avoided by trousers tight enough around the ankles so they don't slide over your shoes.
The dirty toilet problem is a problem if you can't stand far enough away from the toilet, which is a problem in very small loos; I have no solution to it.

Skirts are sometimes easier kept clean in small, dirty toilets, by just pulling them up to waist level before entering the cubicle. It goes without saying that this is NOT possible in unisex loos.
(Keeping the underpants away from the dirty toilet is a problem with that method; that's how I understood for the first time why women didn't use to wear underpants)

Wilderness is much easier. You squat lower so the pee is well away from your trousers and feet, and choose the location so the pee won't pool at your feet. Some women find skirts easier for wilderness peeing.

Isn't it interesting the way that women's groups and disability groups have campaigned about inadequate facilities for years, to broad indifference and a glacial pace of change.

Make it about males needing access to women's spaces and BAM! Change happens so fast it makes your head spin.

I'm sure there's nothing in it, it's just that we're dinosaurs, imagining sexism where we should be acknowledging progress

Oh ... won't men from some religious groups have a massive problem with sharing facilities with menstruating women? Anyone want to bet it will be these issues which stop this ill-considered idea rather than the problems it causes women?

Yes.

Apparently, I am the only one who sits. Next time I need a wee (on my own toilet) I will attempt to squat and report back.

How do you squat whilst also holding your trousers up so they don't get wet on the pee below, whilst also trying not to stand in it and making sure that your bags are up off floor level but also not going to get pinched?

TBH I've not had too many problems in women's toilets (unless they were in an area where I'd predict there to be problems anyway). Just unisex.

The last time I used unisex was in an airport. Women's have always been fine there but the unisex - ewwwwwwww!

The other downside of this is that all toilets will now start to smell like men's toilets.

I went to an LGBT event a little while ago where they made both the women's and men's toilets 'gender neutral' for the evening. The men didn't know any different so thought I was being fussy when I told them afterwards the smell was rank.

I agree that there should be gender neutral toilets, plus women's plus men's. People don't seem to appreciate that, whilst toilets obviously have a practical use, they are also used by women:

• as a refuge when they feel unsafe when being followed or on a dodgy date;
• socially;
• to get a bit of headspace and thinking time;
• as a beacon of calm in a noisy exhibition or crowded space;
• to text their friend to say they're ok when meeting someone new;
• as a dressing room, etc.

Regardless of the trans issue, the removal of women-only bathrooms risks losing all the other uses of the space that women value and will eventually make bathrooms just about functionality.

I guess that goes to what men want when they complain about women taking too long in the bathroom, going in pairs, etc. Take away our spaces so they can follow us in if they think we're taking too long.

As the person whose tweets flagged the issue up can I just urge you all to make a fuss and complain about unfair treatment if you see the same problem with ladies' Loos being taken away in this way.

Oh great - no woman will be using the 'gender neutral - urinals', so the men get to keep their space, but the women have to share??

I agree with the Turner article in the Times this morning. This malarkey just makes me want to pitch up to the urinals with a SheWee.

Yeah. It's like:

This inconveniences men.
Let's stop it immediately, then.

This contravenes XYZ religion/faith.
What are we thinking? Stop it now.

This inconveniences women.
YOU BIGOT! Pipe down.

If you're short (or have kids, for that matter), you have to wipe/line the seat before because squatting is physically impossible.

I'd be interested to know if the forward thinking people at the Barbican have actually put sanitary bins in the "men's"

Good question. If they haven't, they're going to have fun with blocked loos or some blokes complaining about women traipsing around putting used sanpro in the general wastebin. Oh ... won't men from some religious groups have a massive problem with sharing facilities with menstruating women? Anyone want to bet it will be these issues which stop this ill-considered idea rather than the problems it causes women?

I've walked past urinals before to get to a cubicle admittedly didn't realise until after it was the men's!
But i personally don't know any woman that sits on the toilet anyway. Everyone i know squat over, not sit on a dirty public toilet. Although i would wipe clean the seat after but loads of women toilets have pee all over from women squatting.

From the article that Datun posted

Anna Henry Elementary in Tucson has blocked off all urinals in boys restrooms for the time being, following multiple incidents of girls who identify as male reportedly squatting over the urinals to void, pulling down their underwear in front of boys, and causing privacy issues with boys who were upset by girls watching them urinate. Closing the urinals to all students of both sexes has been the district’s immediate solution until privacy partitions are installed between all the urinals so that the girls can continue to use them in expression of their personal identification with male reproductive biology

Pretty amazing how quickly there is action when boys are inconvenienced!

I've never been to a unisex toilet that wasn't covered with pee on the seat and floor and that didn't stink.

Disgusting.

Janice Turner's column in The Times this morning has a section on this story, titled 'Equality flushed away'.

Seen so many of these threads, I feel more angry each time but I'm glad that it is being discussed. I hate the idea that women will be made to feel ridiculous over this, because it feels so wrong to me.

A row of doors leading to an individual toilet with its own sink off a corridor to be used by anybody, is not an issue for me - unless you count the disgusting state some of them get in but in principle I don't have an issue.

I'd be interested to know if the forward thinking people at the Barbican have actually put sanitary bins in the "men's" or machines, I doubt it.

It makes me so angry

I do however think that most men, the ones I like to spend time with anyway :) don't like this idea either, they wouldn't want to make women feel uncomfortable or intimidated by their presence so hopefully the majority will actually remain out of the "ladies" but of course your going to get the arseholes who decide it's their "right"

This is what happens when both toilets become gender neutral. Young girls (elementary school) going into the boys and squatting over the urinal.
www.google.co.uk/amp/s/gendertrender.wordpress.com/2014/03/28/arizona-elementary-school-blockades-all-urinals-in-boys-bathrooms-after-multiple-incidents-involving-female-transgender-children/amp/

What would've happened if all those women at the Barbican barged into the gents toilets breezily walking past all the men at the urinals?

Well if this carries on there will be no more meeting really lovely drunk women in nightclub toilets and borrowing their hairspray and sharing awful boyfriend stories.

Maybe another reason why the men's want to intrude. We were having too much fun on our own!

I will miss those days. The end of an era.

Next time someone asks why I'm against unisex Loos and don't want to share I shall tell them because I just fucking don't! Is that alright with you mate?

One set was a recent refit, but the other was built that way around 10 years ago? I fully expect it was also a space issue rather than anything else.

I visited two venues last weekend which had this type of loo. All placed along a corridor. Absolutely fine

The Glasgow ones were clearly specifically designed that way as part of a major refit. This started in 2012 so I would assume the driving force was the most efficient use of space rather than specific trans issues.