Gender neutral toilets at the Barbican London

Where we are it's usually the religious types who attend the sessions (so I can't see them quietly accepting trans woman) and my friends 88 year old mum who prefers quieter sessions.

According to Samira this meant the 'ladies' toilets were overcrowded, presumably due to men using them?

She must be wrong, were told constantly that men don't want to do this. Has anyone told her she's mistaken?

Have you ever checked how they define 'women only' at your local gym & pool though, Mavis?

What would actually happen if someone said "I feel like a woman today so you can't exclude me"?

originalbiglymavis those sessions will probably be forced to open up to "trans women" or anyone who "identifies as a woman" at this rate.

On one hand we are seeing more 'women only' sessions in my local gym and pool, but it's ok for loos to be open to all?

"Perhaps we should move forward with getting rid of gendered loos altogether."

Ah, there speaks a man who has never been flashed, sexually harassed, assaulted or raped. And again, with the term 'move forward' showing that he's liberal and progressive, and anyone still for segregated toilets is backward.

See I don't like that.

I may be a fussy pants, I know, but how can you send you little girls into the loos by themselves (for whatever reason) if they are open to everyone? I'm not someone who sees a child molester in every corner but at least if you know it's women only you wouldn't worry about it

What if you're tipsy and nip to the loo? If anyone can use them who's to stop some creep following you in if they think you look vulnerable? Sometimes the loos there are dead empty.

Datun that's true - I was wrong there. As you say, the objections are actually part of their motivations for doing what they do and many seem to me to revel in it (the writer of that piece being a sadly good example).

amy

No desire to understand those objections

Never make the mistake that they don't understand. They understand perfectly. Not only do they not care, it's all part of the frisson.

If the loos are neutral - does that mean anyone can use them? Any man or woman at all?

Anyone. Anybody at all.

Just comes across as so entitled to me, their wishes must come first, never mind any objections women may have for whatever reason. No desire to understand those objections, engage at all, just forcing their wish on everyone else.

“I’m not going anywhere. I’m a trans woman and I am more than happy to piss wherever there’s a girl on the door,” he states

What a cunt

And yes i am aware of the irony

Datun quite. Have to disagree with a woman, belittle her opinions, talk over her, suggest she's unreasonable. Only now they can do it whilst also claiming her and other women who disagree with them on anything (even if it's something one of their own staff have previously agreed with) is a bigot.

Late to the party here.

When I'm in the ladies loos I check my make up, adjust clothing, hoik up my tights where necessary and sometimes change tights or clothes if the cubicles are tiny or two floors disgusting. Maybe even hide or have a cry if having a bad time.

If I'm out at a venue, chances are I've had a glass or two.

If the loos are neutral - does that mean anyone can use them? Any man or woman at all?

I can't say I'd feel comfortable in an area where to open to all.

IAmAmy

It is ridiculous. Have they never heard of strategy? All they have to do is agree wholeheartedly with her and say they don't blame her for not wanting unisex loos. Job done. Or better still, just kept their mouth shut.

But they HAVE to disagree, because she's a woman.

So they don't want gender neutral toilets as they stop them from asserting they're women and forcing women (sorry, cis women) to accept them as such without question, lest be branded bigots, but a woman doesn't want them and she's presented as being unreasonable. Incredible.

Then I transitioned. I donned my dresses, painted my nails and scurried into uni as Rebecca

Yes, that's what it takes to be a woman.

Transwomen don't want gender neutral toilets. It completely defeats the object of validating their identity.

Gendertrender have a really good analysis of how the Pink News knee-jerk reaction to Samira's tweets were edited and re-written to eliminate the rage they contained.

gendertrender.wordpress.com/2017/04/06/unisex-restrooms-discriminate-against-women-and-youre-a-ranting-bigot-if-you-notice/#comments

"Rebecca Stinson, head of trans inclusion at Stonewall who was quoted in both articles, penned a piece two years ago titled “I’m a TransWoman And I Don’t Want Gender Neutral Toilets”.

In that piece he opined that forcing himself into female restrooms, although it caused women distress, was his way of affirming his identity. He suggested that women who feared him should be “Ejected from the loo” and forced to use a “gender bigot toilet”. “I’m not going anywhere. I’m a trans woman and I am more than happy to piss wherever there’s a girl on the door,” he states. Read his post here:"

thetab.com/uk/northumbria/2015/03/24/im-a-trans-woman-and-i-dont-want-gender-neutral-toilets-7359

Such ridiculous thinking. They attack Samira for objecting to gender neutral toilets, and in the same breath say they don't want them anyway! They don't want them because it doesn't validate their identity, but woe betide some bloody lowly woman not wanting them because it violates her boundaries.

We don't want gender neutral toilets, but we disagree with you not wanting them because you having an opinion is more outrageous than anything else.

Titania, apologies if my post came over as insensitive to Muslim women. That wasn't my intention at all.

There are so many conflicting and aligning issues at play.

Welcome to Mumsnet, Samira.

I went to a conference at a centre owned by the NUT recently. There was a men's toilet next to a gender neutral. I watched men strolling into the gender neutral and had to go to the other side of the building to find a toilet that was still designated women only.

You're right, sister moonshine.

Where are all the SJWs when it comes to the Changing Places campaign? Where are all the "they just want to pee in peace" brigade when the person who wants to pee in peace is disabled and just wants not to have to lie in other people's pee on the toilet floor to get changed? This affects a quarter of a million people in the UK.

But it's not nearly so useful in terms of getting in some really good virtue signalling for something progressive, or for getting women to shut the fuck up and cater to males, so, meh.

Cap agree with the gist of your post completely, but just want to say, if you point out how this or anything else inconveniences Muslim women you are likely to get more people bloody mindedly agreeing with it just to prove a point, they will cut their noses off to spite their faces.

All the Muslim sisters I know that wear hijab use the toilets regularly to whip off their hijab and fix it properly and if this carries on Muslim lady swimming in my local leisure centre will have to be cancelled too. Let alone the sisters sections at the local mosques where women frequently relax their clothing or breast feed. If we end up with laws like in the US all these spaces are threatened.

But unfortunately only a few if them on my fb account are getting this. I think they somehow assume it will never get that bad or apply to them. Well, nearly all the women I know on fb are ignoring this actually, whatever their religion. Nobody wants to look bad or kick up a fuss it seems.

I am really worried at that push for this, there are very few female only spaces and I really worry that whether the majority like it or not there is a very strong agenda to push this. People won't miss what we are losing until it's gone.

I went to the Barbican recently and didn't notice this, where was it? The poos me and my DD used were female and packed with women

Why are they doing this, I see no matches asking for this. They are just adding these things and giving the majority no choice