Nordic Model on the Big Questions tomorrow

To be fair quentin i dont think anyone is encouraging him

Gender you're wasting your time trying to reason here. Choc & Venus have showed how narrow minded they are but out of interest what do you both think about people with disabilities paying for sex?

It's interesting though. If I had a spare £50 sex would be the last thing I'd buy. I'd buy some expensive shampoo probably and a nice cake with the change.

That's what's important, right, men's happiness?

Not as many men would go. The demand wouldn't require so many women. We wouldn't as a society be legitimising the idea that women are the sex class.

Legalisation would increase trafficking as demand would be higher and there aren't enough local women. This is what has happened in Holland and Germany. There is huge exploitation and involvement of organised criminal gangs. It's easy to hide violence and coercion in plain sight.

Can we please not encourage advocate into giving us all the details? He seems to be enjoying it.
advocate these sex workers are not your friends. You are a customer of theirs, of course they are going to be nice to you.

Good lord choc thats a fab idea

Choco I have had women tell me to whore myself out. I never took them seriously. I had one friend jokingly say I should tag along on a hen night for entertainment for the women. I had no issue with that, just she realised it would be a hard sell to convince her friends.

Nothing makes me as happy as sex.

I can imagine how grim it would be if criminalised. Metal doors, pimps opening them up. Young Romanian girls who offer all services (any orifice) at £60 an hour. No showering and no wipes. A complete nightmare for everyone but still men would go and all control would shift to violent criminals.

Actually - you've just given me a brainwave.

Gender should become a prostitute. He gets to have sex, and get paid for it - simultaneously earning himself a good living, and staving off his depression. After all, it's apparently a good career, nothing wrong with it, so why not?

Jumping into bed with a different woman every few weeks stops me from ending it all. Gives me reason to live

Think how it makes them feel.

Currently sex is too cheap and too easily available. 1 hour with a sex worker is cheaper than the average date in London.

Criminalisation would reduce that demand. Combine it with really serious penalties for pimps and traffickers and then the cost/benefits analysis starts to look a little different.

I explained earlier that infection control is nigh on impossible

And yet nurses, doctors, masseurs, dentists etc. manage it. Could it be sharp intake of breath that this isn't a normal job like any other? Like it's damaging to women in a way that other ways of getting money aren't!

Still though, happy penis trumps all right? Who cares what risks those women are taking, they should just charge more - not too much of course, because it wouldn't be right that you can't still buy your way into their mouth/vagina

I'd prefer to educate the men that buying sex is wrong. That putting women at risk isn't acceptable.

Does that mean I go the next 40-50 years without sex?

Is that supposed to be a reasonable justification for the existence of a subclass of women you can pay to fuck?

A life without sex causes me to become really depressed.

Jumping into bed with a different woman every few weeks stops me from ending it all. Gives me reason to live

I explained earlier that infection control is nigh on impossible. Unprotected oral and even ejaculation in the mouth are almost offered as standard now. Women rinse out with mouth wash afterwards but that is not going to stop much. It is rare when a woman encourages a guy to go protected. Usually they are pushing the upsell to the more expensive oral without.

Ethical brothels and educate men to stop them using coerced and pimped women outside of those. Start paying women a real wage again for the risk they undertake. Currently sex is too cheap and too easily available. 1 hour with a sex worker is cheaper than the average date in London.

ChocChoc I do not want a relationship in the typical sense with women. Tried it and hated it

Now why isn't that a surprise.

Does that mean I go the next 40-50 years without sex?

Why not? You have the alternatives of developing relationships with women or masturbation. All you are doing at present is masturbating in to a bought female body.

ChocChoc I do not want a relationship in the typical sense with women. Tried it and hated it

Does that mean I go the next 40-50 years without sex?

Well yes, just like anyone else who can't find a willing partner, or those living in poverty of course who can't afford to exploit other people. Or find women that want a similar style of non-relationship sex.

You have no right to stick your penis in someone because it feels good.

A life without sex won't kill you, unlike a life in prostitution which has terrible outcomes for many women.

The people who currently run brothels justify the risk in that they effectively, control, coerce and pimp women
Legalisation would possibly mean a proliferation of these places

How do you tally the above with the below?

minimising the damage done to women

Again. How do you propose to legalise it, in a way that actually does protect the health of women (and their clients) with respect to infection control?

What do you propose when it comes to regulation - do you think Prudential will branch out into Brothel coverage? I'm not sure they will, given they didn't even want to insure my house because it was next to a river..

ChocChoc I do not want a relationship in the typical sense with women. Tried it and hated it.

Does that mean I go the next 40-50 years without sex?

I don't think so guardian, your posts come across as very biased against the ECP and absolutely do not accurately portray the Cari Mitchell that I have seen speaking on many different occasions.

Right now if well meaning women set up an establishment they still face the possibility of going to prison for controlling of prostitution. Under that charge the courts can strip them of all assets and impose a lengthy prison term. So currently the risk is not worth taking.

The people who currently run brothels justify the risk in that they effectively, control, coerce and pimp women. They will take 50% of earnings and be open 16 hours a day 7 days a week. It is worth millions. They will place "maids" in the establishment who will handle the day to day running and distance themselves if a police raid comes in (rare these days).

Legalisation would possibly mean a proliferation of these places. It would also give some women the option to set up ethical brothels or just work together from home. Hopefully then the police and councils could start weeding out the worst places. It might also take men to educate others as to the best way to go about finding sex outside of relationships whilst minimising the damage done to women

You are going to drive her customers away and force her into a life of poverty
Not going overseas to exploit impoverished women

Nope, staying home to exploit them instead. Nice. What a lovely man you are, paying these women to have sex with you, saving them from poverty, you're basically a hero with a happy penis. /s

No. Can't get on board with that at all. Invest time and effort into making a real connection so women want to sleep with you or masterbate. It's funny how you pitch it as wanting to save these women from violence and poverty, and it just happens to coincide with exactly what you want to do anyway.

They should have the freedom to earn money as they see fit

Well when it comes to prostitution that's your opinion. Other ones are available.

and be protected from violence and coercion

We agree. I don't think we agree on how that should be achieved.

I am happy to admit I am a buyer.

Think most of us had worked that one out.