Nordic Model on the Big Questions tomorrow

rufus i think the most important thing is sex workers safety and i think decrim is the best form of safety for the women.

i also think that poverty is a big reason as to why women go into prostitution. I saw the bbc films last weekend on the iplayer, I think about 7 of them about 15 minutes long. About Holbeck in Leeds where sex work has been criminalised in that area. All the prostitutes they filmed were addicted to drugs. I also think that 's a massive problem, but was angry that the BBC didn't also follow women going into prostitution so they could pay the rent - I think there are many that do.

gender I second Quentin

OK. What would it take to stop you purchasing sex? What will change your attitude?

How do you tackle the problem of the disparity between male and female libido?

There's not a disparity in libido but a disparity in the possible outcomes of sex for men and women.

The problem lies with men's attitudes but outlawing the purchase of sex will not help to alter that.
OK. What would it take to stop you purchasing sex? What will change your attitude?

hold

I think most people do answer other threads

Its up to people to post them

So do you think that prostitution is an answer to poverty, or more a necessary evil which if it has to exist should protect the women doing it

Lass - sex is part of a loving relationship.

FIghting against poverty - yes I'd like to think people do, including feminists. I'd have thought that was a given, but sadly the vast majority of posts on MN feminist chat are hostile & hysterical trans bashing threads so thought it would be good to double check seeing as poverty is very rarely brought up here.

Exactly rufus

So as long as men arent criminalised you are quite happy?

Have i read that right?

What a gent

In my experience, if you mention faked orgasms to men they react in 2 ways:

1. Looking genuinely perturbed they say "I hope they haven't done that with me". These are most often men who have pretty deep relationships with women that are partnerships. Or
2. Looking pretty confident and slightly sleezy like they are recalling they say "No, I'd definitely know". These are usually men who have short flings and one night stands and appear to over-estimate their own allure.

In my personal experience, type 1 is actually pretty good in bed -keen to learn and get it right. Type 2 is awful, and women will say 'urgh it's like he thought he was some porn star' or 'he''s been seriously lied to".

Sorry to burst your bubble

If people disagree with prostitution do they also fight back against the cuts that directly impact on some of the most vulnerable women who may have to go into sex work to survive?

Yes. HTH.

I am not advocating legalisation. I am very much against further criminalisation. The problem lies with men's attitudes but outlawing the purchase of sex will not help to alter that.

How do you tackle the problem of the disparity between male and female libido? Are you going to advocate dietary supplements to control men?

It will make for far less harmonious society. Sex pest central.

Someone from the English Collective of Prostitutes? I hope they wipe the floor with you. Nothing worse than women dictating to other women on how they should live their lives and restricting their choice

Twattish comment number one and they just havent stopped

The Invisible Men is good at highlighting how punters view women. What they all have in common is they believe women are a commodity and they all have a huge sense of entitlement - somewhat like GEA is demonstrating.

I agree lass

Rufus Hasn't it just? Post after post of self-serving drivel.

Still a punter. Still deserving contempt.

so lets explain this to the unitiated.

ODFOD

and no one on here said sex workers are heartless

It might also take men to educate others as to the best way to go about finding sex outside of relationships whilst minimising the damage done to women

Wow.

That's another pile of shit right there

Though to be honest there has been post after post full of bollocks

What percentage of exploitation are you happy with GEA?

So lets explain this to the unitiated. Yes on the average meeting there is general politeness, courtesy, small talk, the woman uses lube and smiles and we both say thank you and goodbye at the end.

Then on the odd occasion you meet someone you click with. You talk more than you normally would, you notice she is more nervous but at the same time she is asking personal stuff. You also notice that things go naturally.

You come to the end of your allotted time and she overruns but does not care. She still wants you to hang around rather than boot you out the door. She starts telling you about her life and then says do you want to go eat as she hates eating alone.

You share a meal, swap messages on whatsapp and become friends.

Not all sex workers are heartless. Not all sex workers are beaten women. Yes, now and then they warm to you and actually want to orgasm on the job.

It is not all exploitation. Sorry to burst your bubble.

Right now if well meaning women set up an establishment they still face the possibility of going to prison for controlling of prostitution. Under that charge the courts can strip them of all assets and impose a lengthy prison term. So currently the risk is not worth taking.

The people who currently run brothels justify the risk in that they effectively, control, coerce and pimp women. They will take 50% of earnings and be open 16 hours a day 7 days a week. It is worth millions. They will place "maids" in the establishment who will handle the day to day running and distance themselves if a police raid comes in (rare these days).

Legalisation would possibly mean a proliferation of these places. It would also give some women the option to set up ethical brothels or just work together from home. Hopefully then the police and councils could start weeding out the worst places. It might also take men to educate others as to the best way to go about finding sex outside of relationships whilst minimising the damage done to women

Nothing you have said here suggests that legalisation or decriminalisation would lead to more prostitutes setting up these idealised 'ethical' brothels any more than having no change in the law or adopting the NM. And yet it is the mantra the pro lobby keep repeating over and over again'... They do a lot of that. Unqualified statements made over and over again.

I suspect most men who prefer prostitutes to partners, are unable to actually tell the difference between a real orgasm and a fake one.

If people disagree with prostitution do they also fight back against the cuts that directly impact on some of the most vulnerable women who may have to go into sex work to survive?

Uh, yes, obviously. Why are anti-porn and anti-prostitution feminists continually painted as if we're right wing, yay-austerity, social conservatives who lap up every word in the DM*? It's just BS. I'm against anything that puts women in such a vulnerable position they feel forced into prostitution.

*the irony of my having linked to the DM on this thread is not lost on me, but I couldn't find another newspaper reporting the issue

The personality profile of punters is varied, wide and diffuse.

But I'd say the only thing punters have in common is their beliefs that they "make her come". It's a cognitive necessity in order to enjoy their punter experience. Believe me. They all think "she enjoyed it as much as me".

This is the only trait punters have in common.

When a punter suspects that she did in fact not enjoy it as much as him, then she's a shit hooker. She gets the negative review.

A punter always needs to believe he made you come in order to fulfill his paid GF experience. The working reality is, it's your job to fake it.

Or care for someone that does, who would find it very difficult to have a loving relationship despite very much wanting to?

And how exactly does becoming a punter and buying a body to masturbate into resolve the lack of a loving relationship?