Nordic Model on the Big Questions tomorrow

And yet the current laws around prostitution still leave women at risk by forcing them to work separately. I think Mumsnet owned and run brothels would be the way to go only under current laws you cannot do that. Imagine a feminist owned and run brothel. All profits went to the workers. You could drastically improve the lives of 10,000s of women.

Robbery, rape, murder and assault are already against the law gender

So because of risky practices in the sex industry you would still advocate barring women from working together and looking out for one another.

As the law stands at the moment, two girls working in a house together is illegal. If one of them drives the other to work or picks them up at the end of the day(some women can have £1000-£2000 in cash on their person after a day) then that counts as the controlling of prostitution and the woman driving can go to jail.

If any one of us drive a sex worker over an international border that under law equates to human trafficking.

You cannot change much of the hygiene. Some women will always offer services without condom and to swallow. You can however reduce the risk of robbery, rape, murder and assault. This is something you could campaign for on behalf of your sisters rather than misguidedly thinking you can drive prostitution out by using the police to arrest men.

I think the ECP woman just made the point about health and safety. "Let women work together".

ROFL - how is working together going to stop them getting STDs? Going to comply with regulation about disposal of hazardous waste?

I think you're hung up on the 'Safety' aspect and entirely forgetting the 'Health' one.

My nurse puts on gloves to perform my smear test. She wears clothes that are washed by a commercial laundry to do so, it's performed on a wipe clean bench which is covered by a disposable cover, which then goes in a special bin (all the while gloved). Any tools she uses are sterilised between uses, the bench wiped down with the correct cleaner, and the room is regularly deep cleaned. The actual sample collected is sealed and placed in a clearly labelled bag, where everyone touching it will be similarly gloved and use similar safety procedures. I am a co-operative, still client, who doesn't touch her at all.

Prostitutes are dealing with much greater volume of fluid, which shoots, rather than passively staying put. They are dealing with an active client, and likely not in a clean facility, or on a cleanable bed.

Until they are following hygiene procedures at least as comprehensive as used for a smear test, they cannot be legally meeting H&S regulations, and as such, until that is addressed, I could not support it as a 'real job' or for legalisation.

LOL Lass Now THAT would be 'Progressive'

Yes one woman who made the point that it is men's behaviour that needs to change

Indeed. They might try only having sex with women who want to have sex with them without having to be paid.

Just been reading a Heather Brunskell-Evans' blogpost - she was the woman being profusely apologised to by Campbell at the end. Very good nordicmodelnow.org/2017/01/14/decriminalization-and-the-prostitution-of-british-law/

So Laura were you one of the people who got a chance to speak? Did you further enhance your feminist credentials by speaking out against the exploitation of women in a public debate?

I think I was the only person who suggested she would do what the ECP usually do.
I reckon she may have been told firmly that if she made personal comments about or inimidated other guests she would be asked to leave.

No it looked like she agreed to stay calm and let others speak. She was anything but the overbearing bully that posters here thought she would be. A credit to her organisation and the women she speaks for.

I was really pleased that Campbell didn't let her get away with preventing others from speaking. I have a feeling that the way he apolgised to the woman at the end suggested to me she agreed to go on the show only if she wasn't prevented from making her points by the pro-prostitution brigade. There definitely seemed to be something goin on - maybe green room intimidation?

I think she didn't really listen to the questions, used each turn to speak as an opportunity to recite her prepared speeches and tried to interrupt much more than anyone else.

I thought Niki Adams came across very well. Good spokeswomen for a section of women who are stigmatised, on the margins of society and would otherwise be denied a voice. I applaud her courage.

That wasn't too bad. He was quite adept at stopping Adams from dominating the thing.

It was what women from that background did in the 80s. It was her sisters and cousins who got her into sex work. Now with hindsight they most likely realise they groomed/abused her. She is not angry though. That is just how it had always worked. Society has moved on and she was perhaps the last generation to be groomed by her closest female aquaintances

criminals who control women and can meet that need for anonymous and off the radar prostitution
Prostitition is not a need. You sound very creepy.

Oh yes child prostitution. How empowering.

Oh and Dervel, the grooming aspect. She says that was typical. Women relatives already in the industry were typically the ones to bring their friends and relatives in. Mid 80s they were still less aware of the child abuse aspect

I don't know you can write that with a straight face. Any half decent person would have seen that forcing a 15 year old into prostitution was abuse.

Oh and just to reiterate , prostitution is not a job , a profession or an industry.

Yes one woman who made the point that it is men's behaviour that needs to change and not legalisation.

Essentially she is right. Men need to behave more responsibly but I cannot see that potentially criminalising them will serve that objective. It will just push them towards criminals who control women and can meet that need for anonymous and off the radar prostitution

I didn't watch it - were the NM advocate guests?

There were plenty of NM supporters there. The show for once was very balanced. Nicky Campbell even opened citing the Nordic model. Jeez you people want it all your own way.

Oh and Dervel, the grooming aspect. She says that was typical. Women relatives already in the industry were typically the ones to bring their friends and relatives in. Mid 80s they were still less aware of the child abuse aspect.

I doubt anyone these days would be so reckless. Anyone under 18 and it is statutory rape unless you are the Queen's son.

I don't know if I can bear to watch further - but it looks like another situation where advocates the NM didn't want to take part in the programme.

Sex workers and their clients will be encouraged to get screened more often. You often hear of localised outbreaks of infections amongst sex workers and their client base