My Company's equal pay review

I confess that I avoid anything with 'rockstar' or 'ninja' or any of these cool descriptions - it generally indicates the company isn't actually going to be great to work for because they'll expect all hours, hacking, and generally bro-style behaviour.

I'm older and grumpy, and I know that if you give developers an inch (I'm a developer) they'll take a mile, and I'd prefer devs that do their job and go home to devs that go off-piste in the office at 2am.

I mentioned how it was going to be another guy, he said that we don't get many women's CVs. I don't remember what the ad for my job said but I don't think the word "ninja" was in it

When I interview, I agree there are often not many women's CVs. But I interview every single one, because I also know that the research shows that women don't boast as much as men, and for 30mins of time, I'm going to talk to them and check for myself (phone interviews first - I'm not wasting their time/travel/money either).

Language bias is one way organisations may be unconsciously biaised and for me personally it was only finding out that I have gender bias that really woke me up to this.

As for the tech and other similar male dominated industries, they do have a challenge on their hands. For those of you in these industries reflect on how many females were on your course, I bet there wasn't that many. This leaves a problem for organisations as there simply isn't the same volume of female talent to choose from and that's before you factor in any bias.

Is ninja the new gravitas? I remember reading how gravitas means senior white male so shouldn't be used in job ads. I've argued for jobs not to be over-specified before, as if you put engineering degree preferable when actually its perfectly fine without one, you'll get mostly men applying.

We have sales ninjas. I don't know if we officially do, actually, but a young colleague has it in her LinkedIn profile as her job title.

There are things that companies can do to provide equity of opportunity.

Having mentors who encourage younger staff to take training courses, apply for promotions, help with CV writing, interview technique, introduce them to others high up etc.

Greater flexibility for employees with young children/caring commitments (it's almost impossible for a mother with a disabled child to have a high-level career, for example).

Support for childcare, e.g. creche, childcare vouchers etc.

Better parental leave for both parents.

There are all sorts of 'soft' benefits as well, like a nice place to sit and express breastmilk, positive reinforcement of family flexibility etc.

Why should companies do this? Because it can make them more profitable. As they recruit they get a better selection of applicants, instead of running the risk of mediocre men filling key positions, because better women have dropped out along the way.

there are many, many papers, talks and research doc.s which back this up as best economic policy for a company. If people can let go of their blind bias, companies can actually thrive through greater diversity.

thatstoast interesting article, it sounds familiar to me. I'm a web developer so I work in a very male industry.

Yes, I've seen "Ninja" & "Rockstar" in job ad's.

I also noticed that when I was looking for a job and I checked out "Our Team" pages of companies website how few women there were in the photos of the dev teams. AND I've been the token (black - well brown) girl for photos i.e. I volunteered a (male) friend when someone came round asking to take photos for an apprenticeship website/brochure and the response was "actually we were hoping for a girl..."

Someone came in on friday for an interview for a Games Developer job, naturally, he was male. I when speaking later about the new position to the CEO (v. small company), along with some of the other developers, I mentioned how it was going to be another guy, he said that we don't get many women's CVs. I don't remember what the ad for my job said but I don't think the word "ninja" was in it.

Aagh the fucking mummy track
Companies could do culture change by things like:

• giving male employees a stint of paternity pay mirroring their contractual mat pay
• asking men who don't take that leave after the birth of a child why not
• making a point of penalising working long hours
• thanking working parents and talking positively about staff who balance work/home
• actively looking for opportunities to reward/thank women publicly for their contribution

And also question why it is assumed family friendly automatically means women friendly - are dads not equally responsible for parenting and if not, why not?

Oh no not pessimistic at all. I'm realistic about how hard this really is and the challenges faced, I'm in for the long haul so will keep chipping away. I will still be chipping away at it when the glory hunters have finally understood how big a fucking challenge this is and fucked off to the new exciting thing.

I do want to sound encouraging (as opposed to patronising) so recruitment panel is a good start. Keep questioning things and maybe just maybe we will get there.

But 'family friendly' normally means 'women friendly' . We had an international women's day event at my work. Someone asked about the take-up of shared parental leave by men -zero.

It's actually really hard to change culture particularly in relation to gender bias as it's so deep rooted that many don't actually notice it exists.

I am heavily involved in this area, specifically trying to address gender imbalances and have been for a number of years and even I was shocked that I have gender bias.

So despite all of my proactive efforts subconsciously I have some particular gender bias.

From that it is pretty safe to assume that this is very common and given that this is most likely as a result of social conditioning this makes addressing it through cultural change in an organisation very difficult.

Of course organisations can make themselves more family friendly but that's not cultural change.

I think firms can change the culture in their organisation, eg by senior male staff showing family is a priority, working from home is fine and being very visible about it.

Good news about the end of sexism though, ebearhug. I bet you were happy when your manager announced that one.

Absolutely, and it was progress from just a week previously when I was just being over-sensitive.

I too am in IT. This all arose when I said there's an underlying culture of casual sexism, and it needs changing by tackling the culture from the bottom up, not just focusing on managers and execs. Except we don't need to do anything, because I was wrong about there being any sexism.

I am in the Community/Local Development sector in Ireland. Was at a conference recently all most attendees (managers, boards and senior staff were female). Seen this at a few types of voluntary sector events in Scotland as well.

You are correct in that it's a country/societal issue. Still unclear what you expect your firm to do about it? Are there firm specific examples out there of negating the impact of not being available for what could be few years or more, depending on how many kids are had?

For example, is there research on how relevant experience is in successful recruitment? Or how to maintain ongoing CPD and sectoral relevance when on maternity leave or as a SAHM?

Yes ebear. I'm considering it myself right now. I'm exhausted from fighting.
It's too easy hand wring and say "oh what can we do if women choose to drop out?" And then do nothing.
I've had children for all bar a year of my working life, I've fought and fought to be equal and flexible so I get the same opportunities as men, and guess what? It just doesn't happen.

Women's personalities don't fall out when they have kids, if work was important to them before it will be again. Employers and society as a whole could do a lot to make things easier for parents at work and to encourage men to do more parenting but they won't because the status quo is too comfortable for them.
As you can probably tell I am very angry about this. We spend girls childhoods conditioning them to follow the rules and work hard for rewards, resulting in girls getting better exam results etc then in the world of work suddenly following the rules penalises you vs colleagues who dont follow the rules and working hard us no guarantee of success, especially not if you are female. It's a massive con.

"I hm just can't be arsed to fight it any more, I'm going to do something different instead."

This factor is huge. I fight with myself on it every day. My life could be great if I gave up work - I'd have free time, we'd all eat better, the kids would love it.

But - I do love what I do (even though some days it feels like an uphill struggle), and it's so risky to give up a career where recent experience is so key (I'm in IT) - should anything happen to DP, or DP's job we'd be totally stuffed.

What is the solution that companies can do if female staff do leave to have kids?

Less experience can make a difference, but women are still often paid less than male colleagues, even when they haven't taken time out for children. It's not like ability is that important in many workplaces, given how many incompetent managers there are around.

Also, a lot of women drop-out in their 30s and 40s because maternity leave or redundancy forces them to reconsider things like work, and quite a few think, "I hm just can't be arsed to fight it any more, I'm going to do something different instead." I think this particularly happens inmale-dominated areas like tech, because the cumulative effects of all the little micro-aggressions does add up.

Although there is no sexism. My white, male manager told me so last week.

What is the solution that companies can do if female staff do leave to have kids? Pay inequality when doing the same job is just horrendous but 5 more years experience, for example, can be quite the difference in recruiting senior staff.

Also depends on the sector. My senior management team is mostly female including CEO (who replaced a male).

No you haven't and I was merely trying to give you some pointers that may help you get somewhere.