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Original poster

Jess Phillips is FUCKING LOVELY.

66 replies

EmpressOfTheSpartacusOceans · 29/03/2017 22:16

Despite the webchat.

I met her tonight along with GinevraFanshawe and Venusinscorpio. She was being interviewed by Helen Lewis to promote her new book.

I asked whether she had concerns about the proposals in the Private Members Bill to make gender equality a protected characteristic & the only criterion for changing gender self-declaration by downloading a form from the web. And she got it. She was clear that it couldn't be allowed to be that simple and that there are definite differences between women and transwomen.

We introduced ourselves afterwards as MNers who'd been on the webchat and explained that a lot of us are worried about this. Her message was, Don't stop fighting.

Incidentally it was fabulous to meet up with other Spartaci!

OP posts:
Datun · 30/03/2017 19:38

We are told one question each, unless it is a direct follow-up to a response.

Very frustrating. But they've made it very clear.

Datun · 30/03/2017 19:37

venusinscorpio

I think at least three people have been banned. I sincerely hope it's temporary.

venusinscorpio · 30/03/2017 19:12

Obviously I don't know, I'm just going on what she thinks may have happened. She wondered if it had happened to anyone else.

venusinscorpio · 30/03/2017 19:07

MNHQ said no more sex/gender posts from this point on and she asked a question about what Sandi Toksvig thinks about the cotton ceiling. She thinks it may have been that. She doesn't know as she hasn't spoken to them yet.

Thisisouting · 30/03/2017 19:03

What for? Angry

venusinscorpio · 30/03/2017 18:42

Had a message from Empress - she is finding herself unable to post. She thinks she may be locked out.

venusinscorpio · 30/03/2017 17:20

Unless she seriously believes that sex inequalities happen to anybody who "identifies" as female.

I felt that was what she was implying.

Datun · 30/03/2017 17:07

ItsAllGoingToBeFine

If you do buy it you must report back.

Didn't she say that she devoted two chapters to it, but she could have filled two books?

I was very tempted to say

Gender is made up. Sex isn't.

The End.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 30/03/2017 16:58

I'm also tempted to buy the book so I can see.how she has managed to define the inequalities without defining the group they are happening too. Unless she seriously believes that sex inequalities happen to anybody who "identifies" as female.

Datun · 30/03/2017 16:55

I've re-read what she said. And I agree, the meaning is ambiguous.

Or a complete fudge, as I like to call it.

IndominusRex · 30/03/2017 16:20

I'm so annoyed with WEP that they don't get it. I had such high hopes. Admittedly these were slightly dashed after I intervirwwd for a role with them and never heard back but even then I kept up my membership, but I eventually cancelled it because of this insistence in all the gender bollocks.

Datun · 30/03/2017 15:12

I was irony overload the entire time. I was desperate to cut and paste what she had said and gone exactly!!! But either she just doesn't see it, or she is also mired in the business of gaining men's approval.

OlennasWimple · 30/03/2017 15:08

Oh, the irony of saying "A great, unresolved question is what women would be capable ofwhat we would beonce freed from reductive notions of womanhood created and imposed by men", given that reductive notions of womanhood are exactly what TRAs are trying to force on women...

venusinscorpio · 30/03/2017 15:06

She's doing the old "intersex/infertile woman is a woman so it's possible to be a woman with xy chromosomes too if you "identify" as one" gotcha.

Thisisouting · 30/03/2017 14:59

I read it the other way as well especially as she said about being on a spectrum which is the usual script

OlennasWimple · 30/03/2017 14:04

I'm just sad because we lost Sandi from the Newsquiz for the WEP - what a waste!

Original poster
EmpressOfTheSpartacusOceans · 30/03/2017 13:50

I don't know. I'm going to have a look at the book & then decide. I'll report back.

OP posts:
Datun · 30/03/2017 13:49

People with XX chromosomes who are born without vaginas (seriously how many of them can they be?), are still women, which is what I think she was saying. Although why it has to be stated, I don't know. Maybe the previous poster who said something like can we still call people with vaginas women?

Original poster
EmpressOfTheSpartacusOceans · 30/03/2017 13:47

That's what I thought, ItsAll.

Oh well.

OP posts:
Datun · 30/03/2017 13:47

That's what I thought at first. But then I re-read it.

FloraFox · 30/03/2017 13:47

Agree Venus. Only six answers in 45 mins which mostly amount to "read my book".

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 30/03/2017 13:47

But you are right that I don't believe secondary sex characteristics are a reliable determinant. People with XX chromosomes are sometimes born without vaginas but I suspect you would still be happy with them defining themselves as women. We are all on a series of spectrums

Hmm, I interpreted it the opposite way to you datun, it sounded to me suspiciously like the whole women can have penises and what about intersex argument....

venusinscorpio · 30/03/2017 13:46

She's sort of saying we have to read the book for the answers. No thanks. Is that how she deals with all potential voter questions?

Original poster
EmpressOfTheSpartacusOceans · 30/03/2017 13:45

I know my local Waterstones has the book so I think I'm going to have a look through it there. Then I'll know whether I want to spend money on it.

OP posts:
Datun · 30/03/2017 13:43

She said she didn't think secondary sex characteristics determined sex. I'm assuming she means that by changing your secondary sex characteristics you can't change sex. She also said 'XX' people, a term generally used in order to make the most basic distinction.

I may be clutching at straws...

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