Men being raped by women

Comparing sexual abuse of inmates by other inmates or male prison guards, doesn't seem like a helpful axis of comparison. I found the article too vague and confusing.

I'm positive that child abuse is perpetrated by females at a much higher rate than is reported and the coercion of teenage/young men is probably a more frequent than is visible in society.

I had an ex who was in care and abused by a female member of staff when he was 13. He did not frame it as abuse as he had been sexually abused by his step father previously and felt they were two different things. He was infatuated with the staff member and the sex was "wanted".

I doubt that there are many grown men who are coerced into forced penetration by a female. I'm sure it happens but no where near at the level women are raped by men.

It's an area that could do with a lot more research (as long as women and transwomen stats are not lumped in together).

I agree with user.

If there is a hidden epidemic then it's most likely to be child abuse by women.

You look at the type of abuse that is documented when men and women have the power to abuse and while women do perpetrate sexual abuse, generally they seem to go more for violence, torture and humiliation while men seem to go for that + sexual abuse. The only things I can think of where there is info and comparisons can be made are the historical abuses of nuns vs priests, and in girls schools/homes vs boys ones, and they seemed to generally follow that pattern.

I do think that a much larger number of men have been abused than is generally imagined, from child abuse. I think and hope that more can be done about this, the historical organised paedophila that has come out on recent years with both male and female victims, we need as a society to try and never let these things happen again.

I do think that sexual violence is a peculiarly male crime though, and that most boys and men who are victims, are victims of men.

Thee biggest issue is probably female child sex abuse. Incidences of female on adult male sexual assault (whether that's groping or penetration with an object) no doubt do exist, but I find it hard to imagine that being prevalent. People basically abuse people who are weaker than them. Men abuse women and children. Who the only people weaker than women (generally)? Children. If there is a big hidden issue, that is it.

Any research on female on male sexual assault would need to define what it meant by "sexual assault". I would argue that it should include things like bum groping and crotch grabbing, and I would expect the study to find a relatively high proportion of men who have been subjected to this. However, I would also then want to see similar research on male on female sexual assault using the same definitions, and I think the researchers would be blown away by the significant proportion of women (almost all, in fact) who have been subject to this behaviour at least once in their life.

In my opinion men can not be raped by women unless they are being penetrated with another object (i.e. a banana), as women do not have penises, to penetrate the male butthole.

The article may or not be clickbait, but sexual assault by women clearly is a problem to what ever extent it exists. If you're a child and molested by your mother and no one believe you because of what are, lest we forget, completely sexist assumptions that women are nurturing and protective homemakers incapable of exhibiting the full gamut of human behaviours - then that's a big fucking problem. And to suggest that problem does not exist, to whatever extent, is wrong.

Underpinning these discussions is often the odd idea that addressing culturally mandated male sexual abuse (which is incontestably most of it) and addressing culturally un-mandated female sexual abuse are somehow in conflict.

And then you get people saying really odd things like:

The only way I can see this working is bringing male sexual violence against women and girls way way down first.

How would that play out in practice exactly? As the police or social services receive allegations of sexual assault would they have a male perps pile and a female perps pile and say 'right, we'll look at the male perpetrated cases first and get round round to the female perpetrated ones later'? Or would they just deal with every case as they receive it and with equal seriousness?

So prioritisation is a bit of a dumb premise for a debate at best, and at worst carries the suggestion that a child victim of a female abuser should be de-prioritised for ideological reasons. And if that ain't an abuse of feminism (and one that plays right into the hands of MRA scum) then I don't know what is.

No that's true. But also not what I mean. The article in the OP refers to the "hidden epidemic of men who are abused by women". Making it sound like a common thing. But there is little evidence to support the "epidemic". It's click bait.

All I can find its lots of articles assuming that women sex offenders are a problem and little actual research.

Erm, well they kind of are a problem if you've been abused by one. You don't need any research to demonstrate that.

Thanks Dervel I agree. I am also a survivor and I often find myself saying this when I am taking about it. I do some public speaking on the subject and also often one to one, as I wrote a book and so get a lot of contacts from people asking questions.

Men generally and male survivors specifically need ways of discussing and describing the male experience of sexual abuse and assault in ways that are not motivated by or primarily focussed on belittling feminists and introducing whataboutery to stories of women's experience. A reality based analysis is enormously important in all discussions of sexual violence.

I've shared panels with, for example a high profile male survivor of catholic clerical rape. So many differences between his experience and more. Equally, though I've never met one, a male survivor or female survivor of abuse by a female would have completely different things to say. there is room for all these stories.

What there is not room for is an ideologically motivated exaggeration of any given situation. Unfortunately women do not need to exaggerate about rape and sexual assault and under reporting is a big problem, I'm sure its as big a problem as it is for male victims of sexual abuse by females because of all the emails and letters and tweets I get from people who have not reported. I have never had a contact from a person who was abused by a woman. This doest mean it doesn't happen but it might indicate something about the frequency with which it happens perhaps.

I'm also very worried about statistics which now include trans women as female perpetrators because this will skew the statistics sharply. Unfortunately, whether people like to hear it or not, serial or repeat sex offenders, the type of people sometimes called predatory men, are likely to have a range of paraphilia and one of these can be cross dressing for an erotic charge. Whether this means they are "really" trans or not is impossible to say but it is a fact that must be faced and somethings that the prison and probation service are aware of and concerned about.

Finally I want to say that when I wrote my book there were no UK statistics that showed both the sex of the perpetrator and the sex of the victim with any reliability. I had to make my own notes and cross reference between tables and between sources to work it out. Karen Ingala Smith is helping to get the femicide figures more accurate but we desperately need better, detailed research in this.

However, though it was sometimes difficult to tell the sex of victims and perpetrators in crime statistics because gender neutral language such as intimate partner violence is used, it is abundantly clear that the scale and severity of violence committed by male perpetrators is a tsunami compared to the shallow stream of comparable female crime EVEN if we allow for underreporting. Both areas are underreported so even VAST underreporting on the part of male victims would be unlikely to affect the figures. For example, to my surprise I found that violence against the person was the most common female crime (I had expected theft) 81,410 females were arrested for this offence in 2011.

When you compare this with the 375, 317 males that were arrested, and consider that women make up half the population you can see a problem with trying to make out that violence is all equal. If we then compare the severity of the violence, so fatal violence for example, 210 suspects in homicides were male and 25 were female. 98.2 percent of all sexual offences were committed by males.

Refusing to face these facts helps no one.

In the link that says female abuse links- takes you to a few other links, three of which have various studies quoted in them. & are clear that there limitations in the studies & they haven't been replicated. Which they won't be when there's no funding or acknowledgement of the problem. It's no where near 50/50 imo but significantly more than the teeny less than 2% stats that are quoted. I know several other survivors sexually abused by women (all our mothers) and males. None only abused by females. Way way more abused by only men. I know almost exclusively female survivors (irl) several who have DID- so more 'exteeme' end of things, though u am loath to compare. other than through work where I knew plenty of boys who had been abused (mostly by males) & with the teens I worked with a 11 yrold boy being abused by a 16 yrold girl was considered 'lucky' by peers which is part of why this is less documented within that grouping.

There will be no real research to establish the likelyhood of female sex offenders while tw are included in the stats. & no help for those of us abused by women.

The wounded healer journal forum is allways an interesting insight, a long long time since I've been there but when I did there was a substatial number of us who had been targeted by females also.

Links worked when I used them. I can't post links on my phone though.

I looked at that website wobbly but most of the links are broken and there doesn't appear to be much research.
All I can find its lots of articles assuming that women sex offenders are a problem and little actual research.

When you think about it, why would the fact of female perverts in any way invalidate a critique of male dominance?

Because the misogynists would very much like to pretend that all men who commit violence against women are just random madmen and that there is no system behind it.

Just like I am sure many people in the US claim that white people are shot by the police, or imprisoned for petty crimes at just exactly the same rate as black people.

If it just a "some people are criminal" problem, and there's no system behind it, then nothing can be changed and they can continue doing things like they always did.

Unfortunately giving too much credence to male victims like myself sleepwalks us right into that nightmare proposition.

Sadly, that's likely - while there's still sexism, the fact that a woman's alcohol consumption is used against her, while a man's alcohol consumption is seen as excusing everything he does, would make this scenario a pretty sure bet for a male rapist.

Of course, if his sexual history were investigated, it would be likely found out that he has raped other women, but again, it is only women's past that's considered important.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if more actual research was done in this area, the numbers and scale of female abusers would astonish, but that be entirely down to my own personal subjective experience. I may well be wrong.

One other component that greatly concerns me is at the moment opening this particular can of worms will make women more vulnerable to rape/assault.

Consider this scenario: male rapist chooses his victim. Makes sure alcohol is involved. Commits the crime, then first thing afterwards trots himself down to the nearest police station after taking a few extra swigs of booze just in case. Makes an accusation of sexual assault himself.

1. Nets himself lifetime anonymity for his crime. Even if the real victim comes forward he can never be named.
2. Uses his own accusation to bully his victim into dropping hers.

Unfortunately giving too much credence to male victims like myself sleepwalks us right into that nightmare proposition.

The only way I can see this working is bringing male sexual violence against women and girls way way down first. Then maybe we can look at it in more detail once that's done. I certainly wouldn't want anything advocated in my name that put more people at risk. It sucks but that's just the way things are.

If you look on the Web site making daughters safe again it has links to some retrospective studies that look at rates of female peadophile. They are american/Canadian and ofcourse retrospective studies have flaws. Reported sex offenses are not the whole picture either though.

I am a woman who was abused by both men and women. It males me beyond mad that what happened to me goes so unseen bc of tw in the stats. There is so so little research on female sex offenders, and there needs to be more, bc it does happen more than reported. And has a different dynamic/pattern/reasons whatever you want to term it & studying that is part of what helps awareness, helps victim speak up. Although it's more common than reported figures suggest it's still nowhere near 50/50, but it is difficult to evuate unless more research is done. (The links section has research, & some studies carry from 60%of males who were sa reporting female offenders & 10% female to studies that show females male up 4% of peadophiles our there- clearly a handful of studies are not fact anymore than massively underreported sex crime stats are)

Making daughters safe again really is a great website, please go have a look to be better informed. Read all the links, & the survivors stories give a unique insight

I think if women were sexually abusing children in large numbers we would know about it. I don't believe a stigma or a cover up would stop it coming out.
Similarly if women really were forcing large numbers of men to have unwanted sex, we would see women being prosecuted for that (Dervel I am not for one moment saying it doesn't happen ). Unless you believe it's easier for women to report rape than men to report serious sexual assault. Which given the woeful conviction rates and the fact many women don't report because of the system, seems unlikely.
I don't know. I believe women's are abusers, I don't believe there is a widespread systematic cover up of female abuse as this post implies.

Everyone knows the numbers aren't equal. You only have to take a look at Pornhub to see that it's largely women who are seen as rape meat.

But I don't think the numbers really matter, as weird as that sounds. Well...no of course they matter in that female perpetrated sex abuse should be better understood in order that we catch and bang up the fuckers so they don't destroy any kids lives - but the numbers don't matter politically. It does not matter how many female perps are out there - - it still wouldn't be any more justifiable for men to treat women like shit because they're women. Equally, no matter how many evil black people do bad things to good white people, racism is still not one iota more ok. It is not ok to treat someone as having less worth because of their gender or race irrespective of how individual members of that gender or race behave.

That is what feminism is about imo - not that women are kinder or nicer or incapable of being arseholes. Women are human beings.

www.gov.uk/government/statistics/an-overview-of-sexual-offending-in-england-and-wales

overview-of-sexual-offending-in-england-and-wales

It's quite interesting actually that offenders sex isn't really mentioned. I wonder why?

Yes I agree whole heartedly with Dervel.
Luckily for us we have the crime survey. In 2014 0.5% of men and 2% of women reported being victims of sexual assault in the previous year. No information on the sex of offenders but this can probably be inferred from the vastly higher number of men in prison for sex crimes.
Interestingly the crime survey asked about child sex abuse last year and found a similar ratio of genders affected
www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/aug/04/one-in-14-people-england-wales-sexually-abused-childhood-survey

Also, further to Dervel's point, I accept that these cases can be used as a 'stick' to beat feminism...but on what basis? When you think about it, why would the fact of female perverts in any way invalidate a critique of male dominance?

I don't recall feminists ever suggesting that individual women can't be sick evil fucks too; just that we live in a male dominated society where men believe that they have a natural mandate to sick evil fuckery in order to oppress the female sex.

The existence of female paedos or anything else is not, in my view, a theoretical problem for feminism. Why would it be? Does the fact that black people do evil, oppressive stuff too mean that racism is ok?

I am also thinking of women like Vanessa George who were part of child sex abuse 'gangs'.

Yes, with two other women and a man I recall. It's hard to divie up responsibility in those cases.

This panorama doc is worth watching. Be warned: very upsetting.

There's two parts.

Thanks for that link, although I think the way the article is written is unhelpful. Although it is buried in the article one of the main issues is that there simply isn't the data points or research done to then go on and assert what the piece goes on to state.

I am a man and have been a victim of sexual abuse from a woman, I've only come across two other men that have been. One of them is a lifelong friend who only confided it to me after me talking earnestly about my own experience, so I can well believe there may be more than I am aware of given men's reticence to talk about such things. I have however sadly lost count years ago of the number of women in my life who have reported sexual victimisation of some kind.

The thing that pisses me off about that article and others of its ilk is that it's clickbait designed to set everyone against one another. Having been a victim myself I don't like how all that article will be used for is as a stick to beat women with. Nobody is actually going to advocate doing more research into the issues or roll their sleeves up and actually advocate for male victims. All it will be used for is to tell women to shut up when they talk about rape.

As a victim my empathy is always with the victims, so if we're going to talk about male victims fine, but not in a way that in anyway minimises or takes away from female victims. Personally I'd like every rapist and abuser safely tucked away in prison until the end of time, and I am not a big fan of discussions that are designed to obsfucate and obscure away from getting that done.

In conclusion more research needs to be done before the scale of the problem of female abusers can be intelligently discussed. That is the only thing that can be realistically advocated for right now.

Yeah, I know the difference and you know the difference, but now the transvestites are now lumped in amongst all female offenders, those who compile the statistics don't differentiate and we have 'women' who are capable of rape as it's legally defined.