Can I ask a question about toilets?

Op, what are your thoughts on this issue?

What is that cat saying at the end? 'That's all bollocks mate, I'm making more sense than you and I'm a fucking CAT!'

Ironic that he keeps saying 'she wants attention! She wants attention'. Pot. Kettle.

'Enabled lunacy' I love it. That is it in a nut shell

Datun - I love the last comment left on that video: "This is what enabled lunacy looks like"

Because women are being erased, Satishouse. We have obviously got too uppity for our own good, or something

Never mind transmen, I don't think I want to subject DS to the apparent hellhole of the men's toilets...

RogueBiscuit

I completely agree.

I can't work out if the ideology just attracts nutters, or whether the nutters are just the ones who post.

Either way, I have yet to see a clip that doesn't make me think there is an MH issue involved.

I invoke Miranda Yardley a lot, but that is because she is the only wholly sensible transwoman I have come across.

I am more than happy to be proved wrong.

Datun, that video. I genuinely think he's mentally unwell.

I'm really sick of men coming on here telling us how dangerous the male toilets are, how men are aggressive and will rape anyone given the chance. Yet we know our male relatives and sons use the men's bathrooms without being raped or attacked.

My husband's pretty pissed off with the trans story that men are this terrifying presence in the men's toilets.

I've just posted this on another thread, but I'm leaving it here too.

Transwoman (aka straight man) being filmed by his girlfriend.

I can't even form a coherent sentence explaining how this makes me feel.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=MORAczk_m9w

Choc - exactly, why don't the change the men's toilets into the 'anyones' toilets. Why is it always women that get thrown under the bus

It's about the frightening inability to say no, I don't want this and then being constantly forced to argue and justify.
And threatened with censorship, banning, shunning, loss of employment, and of course, outright physical and sexual violence.

Trans identifying males are as violent as non trans identifying males, judging by the available research, by their own social media accounts, and by the steady stream of criminal acts of violence they commit. Is there a week that goes by where there arent at least one or two new cases of this? And they is just the cases we hear about. With so many media outlets refusing to name males as males or acknowledge male violence, isn't it likely there are more we dont know about?

Satis - yes, and of course the really ridiculous thing about that is that the mens is the one that has both the required facilities, so would be a better choice to open to everyone.

And apparently it's a hotbed of violence, so could probably do with a bit of light and traffic too.

This is how it is going now - women's toilets are becoming 'anyone' toilets. It is becoming common in our universities

Choc - men don't even need to do this though. At my uni, the women's toilets have become the "anyone' toilets - you dont need to put a skirt on to go in. A man dressed as a man who identifies as a man is welcome to go in. We are being exposed to ALL men in what should be women only spaces just to accommodate trans people

Satishouse

That sounds awful, and it really pisses me off.

Women aren't even being asked. It's just a bloody assumption that they will roll over.

Personally, it is this sweeping, wholesale disregard for women's opinion that angers me, almost more than the actuality of sharing spaces.

When the American bathroom debate first hit my radar, I wasn't even aware it had anything to do with transgenderism. My initial reaction was, no, fuck off why should we?!

And, I agree, it's not all about male violence, although that is obviously a large consideration. It's about the frightening inability to say no, I don't want this and then being constantly forced to argue and justify. When it should just be a no.

The massive elephant in the room to me is that women's opinion really, really doesn't count. It's like people are looking at women and are truly incapable of seeing them as having any kind of worth as separate entities.

It is insane Seek.

Especially when you read things about the men that have planted cameras, or drilled through ceilings, or invented bloody fake arms or special shoes just to perve on women. Men as a class seem to have infinite time and resources to invade our spaces, so the idea that saying 'I'm a woman' or bunging on a wig/dress would be too much effort is truely ridiculous.

And yet, Choco, if we say that we get querulous demands about whether we really, honestly think that men are going to go to the bother of getting into women's toilets just purely to rape us, or else a wilful misunderstanding cf. Jack Monroe - 'how dare you say that trans people are all rapists'.

So in a nutshell - men are so awful that they will rape and hit anyone, on sight, who doesn't look like their idea of a man - when they are in the safe space of the men's loos. However, they literally cannot be arsed to go to any bother to rape anyone outside the men's loos. They just wouldn't.

It's ridiculous. That's why IMO framing it as a safety issue is wrong. The fact that certain transwomen want to trample over the privacy, dignity and boundaries of women is a red flag for me, I'm afraid.

Transwomen can't use men's loos because statistically the change they would be raped or attacked there is very very high.

Jesus Christ - mens loos sound like something from Mad Max - there was me thinking that it was the urinals and pee on the seats that was the main problem... Definitely best that we keep men out of the women's toilets then if they're that terrible - and since we have no firm way of determining which men are transwomen, that makes it all the more critical that transwomen stay out of women's toilets - since self-determination literally opens the door to any violent male who wants to leave their thunderdome toilets...

Here is what's actually happening in the real world - at my university, the male toilets have been left alone and the ladies have become 'anyone' toilets. So I have no right to confront anyone at all who might be in there - transwomen or males. No need for a man to even identify as a woman, any man can use these toilets. I no longer feel safe and the toilets stink of piss. I can go out of my way to go 5 floors down from my floor to use the one remaining ladies toilets by the entrance however, so hey, mustn't grumble

The OP is trying to do a gotcha! with transmen and her entirely innocent and not-agenda-driven-at-all questions. Tedious

It really is. And it shows just how desperate these men are to get into our spaces. The whole "we're one of the girls and we're scared of the men" thing is horribly manipulative. Why would men ,and they ARE men, be scared of other men?

And if they are scared, why aren't they scared everywhere? Why aren't we hearing about them being afraid to walk home or afraid to use public transport? Do women only get attacked in bathrooms? How utterly convenient that they're only scared in changing rooms and bathrooms. The more I hear them whinging and making up lies the more convinced I am that there are other reasons they want to get into our spaces.

It's a blatant Trojan horse.

This toxic construction of mens' toilets as somewhere which will inevitably lead to assault, rape, and violence toward anyone who's not obviously a man is a part of the entrenchment of gender stereotyping which underpins the whole trans activist argument.

Problem 1: If men's toilets are so full of rape and violence, why isn't that everyone's first priority? Why is the answer to the apparently inevitable raping and violence by men that this should carry on in its own space, and people who don't like it can just come in the nice safe ladies loos?

Problem 2: If it's such a dead fucking cert that men rape people they don't see as men, why are the concerns many women have about letting people with penises in their toilets dismissed out of hand? ('all the transwomen I know are lovely, you should talk to more transwormen and you will see what a lovely gentle species they are' etc).

It's fucking nonsensical.

Thanks for finding the link, Datun. I've got to find it how to paste links on my new phone. Sorry I upgraded now.

From the OP - "how would you feel as a woman sharing a toilet with someone who at least on the surface, looks male? "
I would feel vulnerable. And that sense of vulnerability would cause me to look very, very carefully at the apparent male. Height, jawline, size of hands and feet, hip width, waist. Sounds a lot, but it would probably take less than a second. If I recognised them as female, I might relax. If I considered they might actually be male, I'd tell them to get the fuck out of my toilets. And mean it.

how would you feel as a woman sharing a toilet with someone who at least on the surface, looks male?

the question has not been turned around, you are just ignoring the answers you dont like.
As I stated on the first page, I have used the mens bathroom.

As a woman using the bathroom, I expect to be int he womens bathroom. If the sex of the person standing next to me is ambiguous, I might challenge them. 'Are you in the right bathroom? This is the womens'.
If we are not permitted to ask the sex of the person standing next to us,. the 'question' is ludicrous.

Thats not us turning the question around. Its trans people creating ridiculous confusion by banning the question 'what sex are you?' and calling it hate speech.