Riley Dennis

TinyRick I absolutely agree.

When I was at uni in the 90s, those who felt disaffected or out of step with mainstream culture or as if they didn't quite fit in, tended to gravitate towards the goths or the metal heads. We died out hair, wore lots of eyeliner and velvet and listened to fringe music while moaning about how nobody understood us. Sexual experimentation was a thing too. Most of my goth friends identified as bisexual.

Fast forward 20 years and every single one of my 90s goth friends have ditched the eyeliner, toned down the black and angst, got a sensible job and embraced their heterosexuality. We might still listen to Sisters when we get together but we laugh over what earnest, pretentious twits we were back then. The difference is that our late adolescent identify crisis was easily reverseable once we'd grown up a bit and didn't throw anyone else under the bus.

Riley has nice hair and good eyeliner skills. Can't get past the bullshit that spews from his face hole to find him an attractive person though

I find androgynous men and women very attractive. Especially if they keep their gender.

Even Riley is attractive looking, despite the bullshit.

Definitely. Having a non mainstream gender identity means something special to these young people. They view themselves as a rebellious or unique tribe who are different/marginalised. It's an extension of 'waaah nobody understands me' with a side of 'life is so unfair' and a bit of 'I'm so interesting definitely more interesting and complex than most people'
This generation will grow up and something else will take its place. Sadly this generation will be surgically and hormonally altered in permanent ways. At least goths could have a wash and cut their hair if they changed their identity.

And on the talk of emo's and goths...

Well, it's just that isn't it. Ever since around the 50's (I would say) there has always been a new thing that young people/teens had something that they could rebel against their parents to. Rock n' Roll, Hippy, glam rock, metal, goth, grunge, nu-metal, emo, tattoos, piercings, hairstyles...

We don't seem to have a vibrant, colourful, weird counter culture prevalent now.

For the young, tumblr generation this is their 'counter culture'. This is their tribe to feel part of. The majority of blogs/vlogs I have seen of young trans they do love their piercings/tats/colourful hair that at one point would have marked them as alternative.

paulapantsdown Not quite...there are plenty of 'straight, heterosexual' men who would totally fuck them. They just won't openly date them and marry them. It's a fetish.

'Evan' Man with pigtails, hair is hair. Do want you want with it, does not change your biology

Not sure what your point is? Evan Dando is a man ; he was a very beautiful young man, with long hair which he sometimes wore in bunches. He is not trans.

I think a lot of this nonsense is down to transwomen not having anyone to fuck.

Straight men won't because although they look like a woman, they have a dick.
Gay men won't, because, although they have a dick, they look like a woman.
Straight women won't, because, although they have a dick, they look like a woman.
Gay women won't, because, although they look like a woman, they have a dick.

Am I being over simplistic here? Are transwomen getting their knickers in a knot because no one wants to shag them?

'Evan' Man with pigtails, hair is hair. Do want you want with it, does not change your biology

Riley is 6"4 too. Like lots of women

Actually I think Riley is a cute man

He is. Not as pretty as Evan Dando or the Hanson boys, but still cute.

Alex (I'm expanding the bandwidth of what it means to be a woman) Drummond is also very good looking. I think Aex looks great in his eyeliner, jewellery and skirts.

Evan Dando in a dress.

I don't think it's any good recommending or suggesting transwomen be 'feminine' men because that's not what they want.

It's not only those MRAs eroding women's rights, its transwomen who want to be women, as opposed to just performing femininity. They will settle for nothing less.

As previous posters have said, guys in make up with long hair is nothing new. They could do it easily, if that's what they wanted.

I like a feminine looking man and don't find cross dressing off putting. Adam Ant, Eddie Izzard and the ilk are all hotties in my eyes - I just don't think they are female or that I am in any way shape or form a lesbian for fancying them.

(hasten to add that these goth guys wouldn't thump women, just blokes who thunped them first outside the nightclub)

80s goth teenager here high fives to all the girls whose boyfriends wore more makeup than they did and yet were heterosexual blokes who would probably thump you if you called them a genderqueer trans lesbian

I love Magdalen's takedown of Riley and her separate attack on Everyday Fetishism.

"So. Riley presents as a woman by way of eyeliner and a vest top?"
As so many men of my acquaintance did in the 1980s - except they presented as MEN, swithering between Billy Idol and Nick Rhodes.

Kurt Cobain in a dress was one of my favourite things in the 90s. Leoopard print dress, a tiara, and singing Dive.

The boy was bloody attractive.

Mind you, Dave Grohl's in a bra in that video and..............yeah. Hot.

Aw, I loved Evan Dando

He was very beautiful and had impeccable make up skills. Totally male though

Evan Dando.

Riley manages to be grossly offensive and appropriating to womanhood AND gayness. If only he'd pretend to be black

Gin - my friend's husband was an emo boy back in the 80's and 90's and it was recently his birthday and she posted pictures of him from that time.

He was very beautiful and had impeccable make up skills. Totally male though.

Yes, I was also thinking many of these self absorbed whiny idiots would be emo or goth in earlier decades.