I'm not the barista's "my love"

Why do you think there are apparently more posters on an anonymous female-dominated online space expressing their discomfort, than seem to in real life?

This a self selecting forum of women who probably do care.
Personally I'm in the kindness/ nice/ friendly camp.

I think some people really are too quick to jump on their high horse.
Lovely guy called me duck the other day, I didn't mind, I thought it was cute. Not normally said in my area, he was from out of town. My dad used to say it now and again to my mum, reminded me of my beloved dad.

I think Childrenofthestones has got it right.

The objection seems to always be when the person using the phrase is considered lower. So the objection is usually about a (eg) workman/delivery man/shop assistant, and we draw their attention to our superiority by "calling them out" (aka "telling them off").

Yes it does happen the other way round and some people will object to their boss saying it, but far less will tell the boss off for it.

I wonder how many of those who "call people out" on it would have a go at the elderly lady who stopped me yesterday by saying "Excuse me my love." She just needed some help to pick something up.

I don't even notice when people call me love, duck or whatever. I think when you live somewhere where these things are ubiquitous, it's more like punctuation than personalised patronisation. In a café, it's warmer than sir and madam, less servile, more human, and I suppose it's hard to serve someone without referring to them somehow.

I don't mind it in general but now and again you get a condescending asshole saying it, then yes it is annoying. In principle no though, I don't mind, I think it's friendly.

Bluebell were you being ironic following my last paragraph with that?

You obviously haven't got anything more important to worry about OP, lucky you.

I don't think anyone can legitimately claim that the majority of people are not offended, tbh. Have you done a survey? Why do you think there are apparently more posters on an anonymous female-dominated online space expressing their discomfort, than seem to in real life? Perhaps women don't feel comfortable to say these things openly for fear of being branded a humourless harridan, to quote upthread. They just bite their tongue and smile to fit in with the patriarchy. I do it all the time without even realising it.

The more I think about the more I find this is really quite unacceptable to be honest - why must (mostly) women accept this behaviour from (mostly) men and if they don't like it it's the women's fault for being uptight not the men's fault for being overfamiliar?

To the whatabouters, btw, I'm perfectly capable of objecting to this whilst at the same time caring about gendered violence, campaigning against FGM and supporting charities providing women's healthcare and sanitation in developing countries.....multitasking feminist me

PV - "good morning" or "hello" with a warm smile is a non gendered way of addressing just about everyone. You don't need to go to university to say that.

I don't use endearments to anyone other than DH, DD and the children I work with. It would just feel fake for me to call a stranger/acquaintance "love" or "dear".

Cross posted.

Thank you, Bluntness.

My point is that almost every single way of addressing strangers in the English language is gendered. And many also connote class (bruv, sir, and so on).

My point is that it is very hard to communicate in ways that don't offend anyone. I guess you all think it is just as easy as smiling, but I've tried to find ways to not sound stilted without using any term which might bother someone and I can't. Maybe it's because I didn't go to uni.

I understand why OP was upset, but I wanted you all to put yourselves in our shoes.

sometimes men find it weird when you call them love (especially if you're a man too-I'm not) so they often get mate.
Get over yourself
Why is it ok for men to find it weird and a change be made, and not women? Why do women have to "get over themselves"?
I don't mind myself, but I can see why some people do and surely it would just be easier not use pet names to clients.

It really depends how it's said and used. I'm quite formal (I'm told) but I find it friendly and quite nice most of the time. I suppose it's all about intention.

In real life there are very very few people who are offended by this. Yes those few people do seem to be mumsnetters it appears, but in reality these language choices are common place and I've never once seen or met anyone remotely offended.

Puerto, I'd really not worry too much. Yes a small handful of people may not like it, but the overwhelming majority in real life will find it friendly and welcoming.

Please don't stop pleasing the overwhelming many to satisfy the very few. There is always someone offended about something. 🤔

Bloody hell Puerto, are you ok? Bit of an overreaction no? I didn't see Eshamy's post as patronising at all, but serious advice. If you really think your manager would discipline you for smiling at customers but refraining from calling them darling then I'm a bit worried about your workplace culture!

I think the point is - not everyone thinks these things are linguistic niceties, and definitely don't expect them of you as you serve food. Some people find them uncomfortable or inappropriate in this context. Surely it's less offensive all round to just cheerfully say "here you go" with a friendly smile, than risk adding "my love" and risk offence from your customer - I doubt anyone accepting of familiar terms would be walking away muttering, "well she didn't call me honey darling, I'm offended!".

I really can't see that you're in a bind at all - I'd suggest stop blaming people who find your method offensive, and start thinking of a new strategy with less potential to offend.

Bloody hell, PV - keep your hair on! I wasn't suggesting you don't speak. You were asking for suggestions as to how you might come across as warm and welcoming. For me the most effective way is to smile and be smiled at. Obviously, there is verbal interaction as well, but I've had plenty of people call me 'love' or 'darling' without a smile on their face which renders it even more meaningless.

Come to Liverpool, Ehsamy. Loads of blokes calling other blokes 'love'.

It utterly freaked out my DH the first time he came 'home' with me. Which would suggest that to some men it does have a (mild) sexual component, or else why would it bother him?

Mind you, he also got freaked out that men talk to each other in the loos there, too. Apparently that's also a no-no darn Sarf.

Despite having grown up in that culture, I don't often like people I don't know calling me love now that I live in the south. It does feel patronising on occasion - it's a matter of context and how it's said. There was a bloke in our works canteen who said it very aggressively - in no way was it meant as a friendly greeting and I did ask him not to do it.

As we weren't there and don't know the context, how about we stop calling the OP humourless and accept that it made her uncomfortable/annoyed/feel belittled?

Eshamy, what patronizing advice.

Thank you for nothing.

All the people in cafes and restaurants and shops should just stand around smiling and not talking to anyone. Applause for your wonderful insights. Bork.

You know, I thought everyone else was posting in good faith but just not really considering the bind that hospitality workers are in. But you? Just a smug cheap shot. If I thought your advice was serious and I followed it, I'd be written up by lunchtime.

For everyone else, still not really seeing much empathy for people just trying to do our jobs. I'm not being goady, but you're completely discounting people doing their jobs with good intentions. We didn't make the bloody linguistic niceties. We are just doing what is expected of us.

I am in the objecting to overfamiliar gendered terms of endearment camp, it mainly grates on me day to day when male delivery drivers call us honey, love, babe, darling etc (all female professional workplace). There may be something in the theory posited upthreas about it being a class thing, hadn't thought about that. But I wouldn't expect a colleague to refer to me like that in any case. And I say grates on me - it actually makes me uncomfortable. It's a stark reminder that these men are seeing me as woman first, and essentially commenting on my fuckability (as it seems to reduce the older/less feminine presenting a woman is), rather than seeing me as a human being/professional/equal, which in a work context I would expect.

I LOVE the idea of out-endearing the offender - because depending on their intent (conscious or not) it should either please them - you're being friendly back - or give them pause to consider how they came across to you. Genius, NotCitrus!

What competitive terms of endearment can we come up with to have in the armoury?

Sweetpea
Honeybear
Honeybun
Schnuggums
Lambchop
Pumpkin
Lovebug
Sweetie
Angelcake
Bunny
Lovemuffin
Sugar
Poppet
Cougarbait? (depending on age!)
Combinations of standard terms- honey love babe.

not thinking of sticking these on a postit under the reception desk for ready reference, no not at all

By the way - quick googling came up with an article about terms of endearment aimed ESOL learners. It had a handy bullet point list of when they generally are and aren't socially acceptable. Top of the list for when not to use them was when you don't know if someone would be ok with it, as well as someone you don't know, in a workplace or formal setting, or a man to a girl or woman you are not familiar with as it can be seen as condescending or rude.

Puerto - you could just smile.

I've lived all over the UK and have never heard a man call another man love.

I'm a feminist and I work in a hospitality job. It's very hard to know a non-offensive way to be warm and human and greet others. We don't know your name! It's weird if we ask it. I default to "love" and "dear" because I don't know what else to do and I want to talk to you in my store without sounding like a robot.

I'm up for other suggestions, but I resent that some people would rather just load another dollop of shit onto my plate by getting upset when I am sincerely, honestly, heartfully trying to do my job well and give you a good experience.

Put yourself in our shoes and tell us what you expect. Please try to give suggestions which won't just lead to me offending other customers who don't share your same politics.

Please keep working on changing the English language and social norms. I agree this is worthy. I do not agree that people on the front lines in service jobs should bear the burden for enacting those changes.

I'd agree with that bluntness.

I suppose I could feel patronised for being essentially told off for using the colloquialisms of my class and geographical area of origin.

Well you felt better for putting him in his place, who does he think he is trying to be friendly

do you find it patronising, I don't>I'm still seeing this debated, and still seeing the same 'stop being such a humourless harridan and worry about something real.......' response cropping up.