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Original poster

Finsbury Park murder (warning: distressing child death). THIS IS MALE VIOLENCE. Why is it not being named?

82 replies

BertieBotts · 19/03/2017 22:57

I'm so upset after reading the reports about this tonight. I won't link because it really is that awful, (they were just little babies :() but suffice to say, yet another attack on women and children, named as "domestic". Oh don't worry everyone, he wasn't a psycho or anything, it's just domestic! It's just fucking endemic, you mean. Because it's not like domestic magically means that each incident is isolated, except wait, no, that's literally how it is treated. ALL THE TIME.

Why is it only ever women's organisations who seem to care about these patterns? Why do we continue to glamourise control and emotional abuse in our media depictions of relationships when it's just the thin end of the wedge which ends in men killing women or men killing women's children in order to punish the woman? (Arguably worse). Why do we promote ultra-violent, misogynistic porn as something normal? Why do we laugh off male aggression?

Do we not get it? Do we not see the patterns? Because I see them ALL THE TIME and I don't know what to do about it, it really makes me despair.

OP posts:
noeffingidea · 22/03/2017 14:55

Sorry but I think some of these comments are a bit out of order.
A child has been murdered, and one is in intensive care.
Women also murder their children, do any of you start a thread talking about 'female violence' when that happens?
Decent human beings do not commit murder, especially young children, and that goes for both men and women.
I honestly am a bit sickened by this thread. It seems that some of you just want to make a point. Flame me all you like, I don't care.

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 22/03/2017 14:00

Given that 2 women a week are murdered by current or ex partners, we could keep this thread going forever. SadAngry

IAmAmy · 22/03/2017 12:28

Just this second had a look on the BBC News site and saw this: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-39352571

At least the police correctly state he murdered her but the BBC don't. Also something about how these cases get reported (if they even do) gets to me, as has been alluded to its almost understated how intrinsic misogyny is in these cases, men feeling they have ownership over women.

I also recall this horrific case: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-37787949 and came across this one whilst reading about that one: www.theguardian.com/uk/2009/apr/04/8

Apologies for diverting the topic of this thread away from the Finsbury Park case.

Destinysdaughter · 22/03/2017 11:44

This is a dreadful case too. Poor girl went to police about her ex stalking her and she was fined for wasting police time!

And then he cut her throat...Sad

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/shana-grice-murdered-stalking-fined-for-wasting-police-time-michael-lane-trial-lewes-crown-court-a7637196.html

AnyFucker · 22/03/2017 11:41

I have literally just read a comment on another thread where the op says "He isn't a misogynist pig. I'm not an idiot. I wouldn't be married to a man like that"

Well, good for you. Stupid woman.

The thing is with this case...the reaction seems muted. We are used to male violence.

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 22/03/2017 11:35

Male violence is so pervasive that it becomes the water in which we swim. We accept it as normal.

HeyRoly · 22/03/2017 11:18

My half Asian children are exceedingly white looking, so I don't think anyone need jump to conclusions about these babies' parentage.

teta · 22/03/2017 08:19

Some newspapers have said he was a very jealous person and also questioned whether he was the father.The children appeared very white whereas he was dark skinned.The mothers friend also said something was up and the mother was upset over something several hours earlier.

Xenophile · 21/03/2017 23:10

Absolutely Fairy. Plus we have the ridiculous notion that a "good enough woman would straighten him out".

In some ways it's a wonder any woman gathers the strength to leave.

graciestocksfield · 21/03/2017 22:46

I hope someone stamps on his head in prison and he dies slowly.

Original poster
BertieBotts · 21/03/2017 22:41

DV often escalates in pregnancy or after the birth of a child. And abusers are often keen on knocking you up Angry

OP posts:
Fairyflaps · 21/03/2017 22:39

This sort of event usually follows a long period of domestic abuse and controlling behaviour. It is unlikely to come from nowhere.

For anyone who asks of a victim of domestic violence: 'Why doesn't she just leave?', here is your answer. Staying keeps you and your children alive.

Original poster
BertieBotts · 21/03/2017 22:16

Actually, I don't know that they were separated, as it mentions them both living in the flat, but he was certainly abusive and violent to have done this, so it's not hard to imagine it had been going on for some time.

OP posts:
HeyRoly · 21/03/2017 21:55

Fucking hell. Fucking men. How come so many of them are capable of such brutality? I just can't understand it.

AssassinatedBeauty · 21/03/2017 21:53

I can't even start to imagine the horror of it or I'd be in tears as I sit here holding my 9 month old. Poor poor woman and children.

Original poster
BertieBotts · 21/03/2017 21:47

Yes, Roly. One of the articles suggested that she may have been locked in the bathroom :(

OP posts:
Fairyflaps · 21/03/2017 21:23

On the theme of how incidents of domestic homicide such as this one are always played down, with neighbours saying "what a lovely man he was" and very little mention of the victims, have a look at the twitter account @menwhokill The murder of Clodagh Hawe and her family in Ireland was a notable example of this.

This article which analyses reporting Sun vs Guardian on victim blaming is also interesting.

HeyRoly · 21/03/2017 21:16

So what are the odds that he and the babies' mother were separated, and he did this to destroy her? That's always the story.

RedBugMug · 21/03/2017 21:14

yanbu
everytime I hear things like that in the new (much too often actually) I think about what has gone on before, what warning sign (that surely were there) have been missed, if she has tried to get away from his control, if the police have (again) belittled her...

Original poster
BertieBotts · 21/03/2017 21:07

Is there any update on the little girl? :(

YY Fairyflaps, I know, it's good some people are talking about it. I just wish it was more recognised.

OP posts:
Fairyflaps · 21/03/2017 20:37

That will be why there's no discussion of it- for this case at least.
Did you see the article by Caitlin Roper in Huffington Post earlier this month about male violence? So people are talking about it - just not enough - and men don't like talking about it

Laurapalmer90 · 21/03/2017 20:27

Not apparently, he's definitely been charged sorry.

Laurapalmer90 · 21/03/2017 20:26

Just read about this. It's sickening. Those poor little children and I can't even imagine how the mother must be feeling right now.

I'm with you OP, I see patterns all the time. Male violence is so pervasive and insiduous in our culture and yet nothing ever seems to change. It all just seems to be put down to a "boys will be boys" attitude which is so damaging and wrong as well because it sends the message that men can somehow not control their violent urges.

Apparently the man has been charged with murder and attempted murder.

BeyondUser24601 · 20/03/2017 13:39

You're preaching to the converted here Bertie :(
It's awful, it's just beyond words.

teta · 20/03/2017 09:54

This has really upset me.Also looking at the face of the baby boy .He didn't look right .He looked very bruised and red-eyed.I have twins -boy/girl and there was a time in their life when one was subject to some bullying from someone in our house at the time.I stopped it but I still wonder how people can be so fundamentally evil.This is not 'domestic' but pure 'evil'.That poor poor mother.