Finsbury Park murder (warning: distressing child death). THIS IS MALE VIOLENCE. Why is it not being named?

I agree, pooch. Show some fucking respect if you have any humanity in you.

I agree, OP. I despair as well. The problem is so sinister and so overwhelming. And there are so many women with internalised misogyny as they have been socialised to victim blame. I certainly was socialised this way.

No victim blaming here.

I think a feminist thread on a feminist message board is an excellent place to discuss a feminist analysis of male violence.

I've no idea what prejudices you're talking about.

Oh cadno. You never change. More's the pity.

And do you think a thread about domestic violence is a good place for your prejudices ?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/feminist_activism/1065291-Victims-of-Violence

Could do with updating.

"Given that 2 women a week are murdered by current or ex partners, we could keep this thread going forever. sadangry"

Prawn, there's a long running thread noting victims. I will link.

That's an interesting link whatsthe, the NSPCC file has a lot of useful data. There seems to be lots of data about the victims there but not anything about the perpetrators. I wonder if anyone has done any research into the prevalence of family annihilation.

You're very tiresome, cadno. Do you think a thread about domestic violence is a good place for your rapier wit? Because from here, it just makes you look like a heartless dick. If the cap fits, though, I guess?

Ah, yes, the old "women do it too".

To anyone that says that, I say "you are part of the problem". When we deny that male violence is even a thing, we let it fester away unchecked. How could we ever begin to address or solve something unless we acknowledge what's actually happening? You could read this, if you were bothered about learning something, but I doubt you will: link

What an awful case. OP, I know it can seem hopeless sometimes, but try not to despair too much

It's mainly MEN who...

Once I said that it seems it's mainly me. Who kill their own children for revenge on the ex. Boy was I shit down! Didn't I think women do bad things too? 🤔

I don't know exactly AB, but given that in the vast majoirity of cases it is by a parent I would assume that they are reducing yes. There's an NSPCC report that has statistics etc in it - (fairly big file). I'm not sure about family annihilation, but this seems to say that the long term trend is that it has got worse.

Wow, we got all the way to page 2 before getting "Shut up!!! Women do it too!!11!1!!!"

Quite right too. Honestly, is it proper these days for people to be so intolerant of other people's entrenched prejudices.

Well said AF. There's always one (at least)

whatsthat are there fewer family annihilators? Do you mean there are fewer children being killed altogether or fewer being killed by a parent or by their father?

"Women do it too"

Well, fuck off and start your own thread about female centric violence then.

The long term trend is that fewer children are being killed. Yes of course any violence should be abhorred but it isn't right to say that it's getting worse either.

Just appalling.

How can we screen these men out, to protect women and children from them?

How can we get more people to recognise red flags?

What do we need to do? And yes, the 'romantic' portrayal of harrassment, jealousy, stalking, control... Desperate.

Bertie, I agree with every single word of your opening post and share your anger 100%. I don't know what else to say. I am sick and tired of the same thing happening over and over and over again and all the hand wringing and the shrugging and the 'what can you do' attitude. Society is in such a fucking mess

I don't know if people believe me but until I went to University I thought that male violence against female partners and children was normal.
I grew up with a father who had a vile temper and was physically abusive. My mother had also been a victim of emotional neglect as a child and thought smacking children was normal.
It still staggers me that there are so many people who have never been hit. It was such an 'ordinary' part of our lives growing up.
I wonder if these experiences skew our view of male violence and leads to accepting what should be unacceptable.
I reached the point 26 years ago when I vowed never to think that it was ever acceptable or understandable and to challenge abuse when I saw it.

AnneSmythe: I've been told, here on mumsnet, that the violence meted out to me was because I didn't pick well. It was said that you don't get raped if you pick a decent man. It's an all pervasive attitude.

I remember that comment. It was phrased as 'I have good taste in men so I haven't been a victim' which would have been laughable if it wasn't so horrible.

I think nobody wants to talk about it precisely because it is so common.

People don't want to admit that it could happen to them. People don't want to admit that it could be their son, husband, partner who does it.
People like crime to be kept in nice little boxes labelled "this could never happen to me".

Oh and also, because it's so common and ingrained, it would take a huge amount of resources to begin tackling it properly. We don't have those resources (not without taking them away from other services, or raising tax, neither of which is popular). So it's easier to brush it under the carpet rather than admitting we have a huge problem that we aren't in a position to tackle.

How many noeffing how many women kill their children?

Some of the stories about how men go about it with the only intention of denying those children to their mother or killing the mother as well are horrific.

No one has said women don't do violence, the numbers are phenomenally different though. And no one cares.

Wow, we got all the way to page 2 before getting "Shut up!!! Women do it too!!11!1!!!".