Realities of 'Leaning In'

I don't think this is a Lean In vs Lean Out situation, surely if we want to advance, then being aware of structural inequalities in the workplace and the unequal demands of capitalist culture, and personally leaning in are not incompatible. To Sheryl Sandberg's credit, she never pretends different, in fact she has a whole chapter dedicated to the fact that if a woman leans in to demanding more money and negotiating harder, she will be perceived badly when a man won't, and her advice is pitched within that context and is not ignorant of it at all.

Sheryl's book is individualistic and comes from a place of privilege and doesn't offer societal change, but the thing is, neither do most left-leaning academics who are very good at critically analysing this capitalist trope, but not very good at suggesting ways around it, if you want to increase women's power and presence in that workplace (or indeed in other places outside of it) and have very little to say about advancing breaking down inequalities for the poorest women, other than pointing to it.

Personally, I have Leaned In and got kicked in the teeth, not being promoted when I knew men who had got promoted only months before with a less good portfolio, but in my case, I did want the extra money and the advancement, so Leaned In again and eventually did get there. I have also Leaned Out in the same time period by cutting back all the 'nice' things I used to do out of the goodness of my heart and to be a team player before I realised my employer wasn't nearly as fussed about me as I was about being loyal to them. That has made for a nicer work/life balance which still allows me to advance but without the mental or physical sacrifice that completely Leaning In would imply. I also try to encourage women particularly as so many of them lack confidence, despite their high achievements, and nothing seems to have shifted there in the last 20 years that much. The final thing that seems to be making the difference is critical mass, we have reached a tipping point, where there are enough women in my organization that some have to get promoted, some have to go into senior management and so on just through sheer numbers, and it is thanks to those earlier group of women Leaning In that we are able to see wider cultural change on a small scale where I work.

peanut

hbr.org/2016/04/research-vague-feedback-is-holding-women-back

www.amazon.co.uk/Nice-Girls-Dont-Corner-Office/dp/0446531324?tag=mumsnetforum-21 (haven't read this but have read a book chapter about coaching women that referenced it and it was fascinating. It talked about the line between helping women realise how work culture could be holding them back while not suggesting it was the woman's own fault)

www.newyorker.com/science/maria-konnikova/lean-out-the-dangers-for-women-who-negotiate/

www.amazon.co.uk/Lean-Out-Dawn-Foster/dp/1910924024?tag=mumsnetforum-21

home.kpmg.com/uk/en/home/insights/2013/12/cracking-the-code-researchbehavioural-differences-in-the-workplace.html

What on earth is leaning in?

I liked it, but I know many didnt.

Its applicability is certainly narrow, which SS doesn't acknowledge, but so are plenty of other management books written by men. It's a helpful but not perfect career tract. Plenty of more mediocre books out there, but it's not a holy grail.

I lean out. In my experience leaning in (for a woman) often means getting all the shit work dumped on you.

Agree with most of what's been said above, especially regarding women being penalised for behaviour that's seen as normal in men (don't ask for a rise, don't get, do ask for a rise and you're a ball-breaking pushy bitch - can't win either way).

I saw a fascinating TED talk by a very rare example of a woman CEO (to my shame I can't remember who - someone at work linked to it) which debunked it. Her thesis was fascinating. The talk was roughly along the following lines. "You're going for that step from middle management to board level. You get mentored. They give you all this advice about soft skills - how to lean in, how to push for what you want without seeming pushy, how to be as assertive as a man while not being noticed to be doing so. They don't tell you what's actually needed for the interview - a massively sound grasp of the company's business strategy, economic projections, place in the market, strategies relative to its major competitors - the big picture stuff that marks the move from middle management to board level. People are so busy assuming that the problem is going to be 'how to be a woman in a way that's acceptable to men' that they take their eye off the ball..." It was a very interesting talk - basically arguing that lean in was a form of victim blaming which distracted women from focusing on the skills they really needed.

Personally, I lean out.

*on emails

^more evidence of sleep deprivation

Leaning in is complete balls IME. It means that I take calls, do telcos and am expected to be on calls at all hours and am therefore sleep deprived, stressed and a bad mother. Why the heck should I have to pretend to be a man to do well in my accidentally-chosen career?

@QuentinSummers
Do you have any recommendations on readings regarding your post? I agree women are often judged negatively on traits that are praised in men. I would love to know if there are any texts on how to combat this

Oop. Missed that...

TBH though, the fact that he starts out by describing her as a colleague would have been the run I'd have taken if I were writing it, not that he was her boss - that isn't how he wrote it himself - he seems to describe himself as senior, supervisory colleague rather than manager..

But it is a subtle difference, and it is heavily influenced by my own colleagues, many of whom I am senior to, and even have to assign work to but I wouldn't describe myself as their boss - I'm boss of the work, not of them.

He was her supervisor, choc. Would that not make her one of his staff?

Quentin - there's an example of institutional sexism for you - the intro to that article:

A guy called Martin Schneider did an email experiment to find out how differently women are treated to men after one of his staff kept getting a shitty time from a client

Except, as Martin says in the second tweet:

Nicole and I worked for a small employment service firm and one complaint always came from our boss: She took too long to work with clients.

They were colleagues. Yet The Poke (and CNBC) both described him as her boss.. nice.. (other news outlets got it right, including, unbelievably, the Daily Mail)

I flipping hate "Lean In". There is research to suggest women are penalised for behaviours that are rewarded in men so the whole premise is flawed (and is victim blaming nonsense and also Sheryl Sanders comes across to me as unbelievably smug with no real concept of the privilege she has).

Essentially it's like a lot of diet/self help type books and tries to sell an easy solution to a fairly intractable problem.

I read this the other day which was interesting www.thepoke.co.uk/2017/03/10/man-swapped-names-wife-two-weeks-results-fascinating/

For me leaning in is not assuming that i have the main carer role, so actively accepting meetings and opportunities that are good for my career but might be inconvienent. Then worrying about childcare afterwards (you know like a man would).

Marking place