Realities of 'Leaning In'

mainly non-feminist women make it to these positions

I've always thought that was a general rule when it comes to perception of women in power and explains why the two female prime ministers we've had have been conservative.

Someone who is left wing and a woman is of course far too feministy.

When it comes to media tropes you often get women in power who are absolute bitches and far more sexist than the benevolent male leader. It's as if the writers are saying "look women do it to".

HelenDenver I have noticed these female/female news pieces as well and it gives me great pleasure to see it. As you say, my reaction goes to show how new/rare this is. Whatever her politics, I'm also deeply gratified that my daughter is growing up under a female prime minister, as I did. Having said that I do think Theresa May is s prime example of the male hegemony being happy for her to take the role at such an intensely difficult political time.

mainly non-feminist women make it to these positions

Yes, but it is an achievement of feminism that men feel a need to have a female figurehead for their misogyny.

Also, it makes it easier for feminist women who keep their heads down to get there, too.

"mainly non-feminist women make it to these positions"

Maybe. There's an element of keeping your head down when more junior though - I'm certainly more open from my current senior position about leaving early for childcare or whatever, rather than 'oh, I can't do that timeslot'

"I think that getting to a tipping point (mentioned by a pp) with regards to the numbers of women in Senior positions may be crucial"

It feels like that's the case on a lot of the BBC's factual output -often see a female anchor speaking to a female reporter/'subject head' now.

The fact I still notice it shows it's not an everyday occurence, unlike a male/male discussion, of course!

peaceout yes, now I have my promotion:)

They have gone from being very dominant in our organization to having share very quickly and not all have adjusted well, but they are being forced to

I bet that's fun to watch😁

PeaceOut I would have said the same previously, the promotion of a small number of women, often into very difficult positions, then set up to fail/overly criticized compared with men (see Glass Cliff research). But lately, we have so many women that have been parachuted in from elsewhere in management positions, plus a large number of younger women coming up from the ranks, that I do believe that some type of tipping point, where women are just considered employees and gender is not such a big deal, is being reached.

I'm not saying that issues such as childcare have been solved, higher end positions in top organizations will always favour those without caring responsibilities or those who outsource those to others, such as their spouse. I don't see that as something that the institution can do much about though, given we already have flexible working, ok maternity pay and so on.

The biggest impediment is still the men's attitudes! They have gone from being very dominant in our organization to having share very quickly and not all have adjusted well, but they are being forced to. Good.

peaceout that is exactly what I see happening where I work. Sad really because it's big 4 and there are certain people putting a lot of effort in to help promote women. As a woman it's only certain women who will get promoted, those who don't challenge men.

The wifework is interesting. DH is senior and I make him do it. I've been slammed in recent months at work, not had a single day off so far this year. DH had to be told that me doing dishes at 1am, when I got home from work, isn't acceptable. We have 3DC and it's a lot of work. He will always try to do the bare minimum unless I remind him. It's this that puts me at a huge disadvantage to my peers.

I agree Peaceout... sadly.

mainly non-feminist women make it to these positions

Indeed, while men are largely in charge of hiring and firing they will promote women who they perceive pose no threat to male hegemony.
Or even promote women they know aren't up to the job since this serves to reinforce existing prejudice that women are less competent than men😣

mmm except that it is a possibility that the system is such that mainly non-feminist women make it to these positions. Also, that is a chicken and egg to some degree vis a vis leaning in and the glass ceiling.

I think that getting to a tipping point (mentioned by a pp) with regards to the numbers of women in Senior positions may be crucial
When this happens the ability of men to subtlety undermine and suppress women should decline markedly

HA HA HA HA!!! No. But they should be challenged for not doing so and potentially different policies could prod them to do so, instead of taking it as assumed that it's wimmin's work.

If women lean out of domestic work will men take up the slack?

Peaceout - exactly!

I said as much when workplaces were putting flexible provisions in place that allowed women to 'lean out' and didn't challenge that men should be doing this ... but was called anti-feminist so I shut up.

What we need is for men to lean in to the domestic work

Interesting to hear she has apologised
I note she suddenly thought about bereavement policy when it happened to her....like it never happened to anyone else before. Grr.

How does leaning in approach the glass ceiling?

I'm sure if Mark Zuckerberg wrote a book (he might have done!) it would be from his position of privilege too.

Since the death of her husband Sheryl Sandberg has apologised for many of the assumptions she made about what is possible and has said how much harder it is to lean in as a single parent. I read and enjoyed Lean In - it was made clear that it was aimed at a very specific set of women and much of it was well considered. Like many self help books I think if you can just take one or two helpful affirming ideas then it's no bad thing. I agree with a pp that taking opportunities and worrying about childcare etc afterwards is a key thing and I say this as a lone parent for whom this isn't always straightforward. I remember SS said that she attended a talk about women succeeding in the workplace and a man asked "what can we do to help?" "The laundry" came the reply.

I have a few issues with leaning in. I have leaned into my career and honestly I am looking for a new job because the reward isn't there for the work I am doing now.

I am lucky to be working here in the US where there are more women in work and in middle/upper management compared to the UK however a good number of those women have made significant personal sacrifices that I don't see men making.

Reading the book it dawned on me that Sheryl Sandberg is really quite young and working under Larry Summers is not a role everyone gets to apply for (not that she even applied for it). If she had tried to work her way up in the workplace rather than in an academic setting I do not know if she would have reached the top. She also had mentors watching out for her and a well connect DH to help her meet those who matter.

As someone who experiences sexism on a regular basis because I have leaned in, I honestly think as a woman you are better off sometimes leaning out and if you want to get ahead starting your own company on the side. For the past 3 months, as an auditor I have been given the absolute most challenging schedule out of everyone I know. I am running a smaller engagement (which has 3 financial statements plus 2 regulatory reports so not that small) and working on a big client with 5 material weaknesses. My peers do not have the same workload as me nor are they held to the same standard of work hence I am leaving to find a role that is 40 or so hours a week, earning about the same as I earn now, and I will use my free time to start a business so I can be my own boss.

What I have learned is that on the teams I have been working on its an old boys club and the women who are accepted as the 'office darlings' who are deemed as acceptable women to promote. Its like they promote the women who they can keep in check, so leaning in does you no good at all.

ChocChocPorridge Tha you for the explanation. I don't work in an office environment so I was not sure about that. It is a fascinating piece of anecdotal evidence. I used to run my own business and communication was polite, but slow.

I've not read it, but it was discussed in my learning set on a women's leadership course. One of the most contentious topics was getting partners to lean in & take on their fair share of the domestic chores and 'wife work'. Those of us with kids also pointed out how much harder it got with kids in the mix & how you need a partner to step up. Our learning set met periodically over a few months & one of the women split from her long term partner off the back of our discussions - she'd realised she was doing everything & he had no interest in changing.

I found it a useful viewpoint and it certainly encouraged me to speak up more in meetings, to encourage other women to speak up more and to call out sexism whenever I see it. I have never wanted what she has though - an all-consuming, high-powered high profile role. Moderate success is fine by me