Maajid Nawaz LBC- feminists are abandoning ethnic minority women and their causes for first world problems

Which does beg the (perhaps rhetorical) question: Why wasn't her shaming and the death threats more widely reported? There are in my view other far more important things happening in the country right now, but the feminist-minded online media isn't usually this slow to react to stories of women being treated in this way. It's perfectly legitimate to question the silence on this

It is perfectly legitimate to question the silence. He appears to have done so and is being criticised for it. I was questioning why it had come to more prominence.

One poster mentioned she had seen it but nothing much came of it.

"...But here you're working yourself into a right lather over something that was not widely reported..."

Which does beg the (perhaps rhetorical) question: Why wasn't her shaming and the death threats more widely reported? There are in my view other far more important things happening in the country right now, but the feminist-minded online media isn't usually this slow to react to stories of women being treated in this way. It's perfectly legitimate to question the silence on this. To me, it isn't dissimilar to the silence/slow reporting on the German New Year's Eve sexual assaults etc. from last year.

BTW, Maajid Nawaz is/was a member of Quilliam Foundation. He was one of the muslims that London Mayor Sadiq Khan described as "Uncle Toms" because he was so critical of the behaviour of muslims when it comes to facing up to radical elements within 'the community' (yes that's right, the tolerant Mayor of London used that language).

There is no shortage of him directly calling out muslims men (and women) on such dysfunction.

What make me feel good - if you think I'm taking a cheap shot or am making a personal attack, please let me know. I genuinely don't wish to be unkind. I am trying very hard to be clear.

Gosh did that make you feel good ? Bunda

Absurd? - because I think the premise of this thread is absurd navel gazing?

Still wondering about Countess" free pass on calling me a scold.

Here is a link to the program that I presume the OP was referring to - I'd be happy to transcribe his comments but am not in a place where I can play it right now.

lbc.audioagain.com/presenters/40-maajid-nawaz/402-the-whole-show

I think your own main contribution to the thread has been to sharpen that pinhead, Lass.

So it's not discussion because we agree with op? But I venture to predict that if we had been talking about the initial incident we would have been in agreement about that, too - I don't think many posters would have been in favour of shaming the teenage girl.

What point of his has been proven here, you keep saying that?

I am one person, I certainly am not a spokesperson for feminists.

But you yourself are not discussing what happened either, you're taking it to an even more meta level by discussing our discussion.
Exactly! Which is the point that I was trying to make - the absurdity of lass meta meta - which clearly was misunderstood as if it were me being meta meta.

It's like being stuck in a spiral of absurditum infinitum

His comments to feminists were not about what happened! How can you not see that?

Actually I don't think we know what he said about feminism as no one apart from the OP heard the show.

He criticised feminists for focusing on the wrong things

If that is what he said the fact the person who started the thread could not be bothered filling in the background, as far as I'm concerned , exactly proves his point.

What happened was not even of interest but ooh here is a man I can complain about.

What happened was slut shaming, it happens all the time. It's an every day occurrence, it's every day sexism. Women have worked tirelessly against slut shaming for a very long time.

I can't comment to the specific religious aspects or the death threats.

Where are the Muslim women speaking out against this? Do those Muslim women who would speak out have a voice in media? I genuinely don't know.

The feminist board discussion is criticised for being wrong for discussing his comments directed towards feminists.

How many feminists on that pin head now?

Agreeing with the OP is not "discussion" What is absurd about not agreeing with the OP's take on this? I think the OP proves his point.

But you yourself are not discussing what happened either, you're taking it to an even more meta level by discussing our discussion.

His comments to feminists were not about what happened! How can you not see that?

He criticised feminists for focusing on the wrong things.

(A few) Feminists are now discussing his criticism of feminists.

Is this hard to grasp? I genuinely am at a loss.

Or are you expecting a press release on "what happened"?

Feminists have been working tirelessly against slut shaming for years.

"Scolding"- I wonder how many times I've seen comments on here that women are told off for being scolds and how dreadful that is.

But here you're working yourself into a right lather- maybe I should calm down?

I find this thread utterly bizarre- he brought the issue to the OP's attention who then goes on to prove his point by focusing on him rather than what happened.

He directed comments to feminists criticising feminists.

A few people discuss his comments directed towards feminists on a feminist board.

The feminist board discussion is criticised for being wrong for discussing his comments directed towards feminists.

It's really quite absurd.

Why didn't she just start her own thread about the initial incident rather than telling us off for not derailing this one?

I am asking why the OP didn't think the incident was worth anything more than a mere aside?

I am querying why she thinks that is more important than criticising the journalist who brought it to our attention?

. He is not, according to posters on here, allowed to criticise feminists. I am a woman and I think he is absolutely correct and indeed this thread vindicates his position.

How were we even supposed to know to google it in the first place if it wasn't reported in the reputable news outlets?

How do the articles in the Mail critical of trans issues find their way on to MN and FWR? No one apparently reads the Mail.

The OP apparently could not Google the incident for more information, once it had come to her attention, as point scoring against a male journalist was more important.

And actually Countess , given what he wrote on Facebook and the reaction from the OP (OTT) and others, I think he was right in talking about the story and he is right about certain aspects of feminism. To approach this story in the way the OP did is the feminist equivalent of counting how many feminists can dance on a pin head. There, that is me responding to his take on the story.

Yes, this is the whole point of the thread - the comments directed to feminists, not the story itself.

The story itself is appalling and a clear picture of misogyny and patriarchal oppression. It's appalling. I do follow quite a few activist news sites and have lots of friends who are acitivists - this did come across my radar but I just cannot remember through which source. And I've looked and can't find it.

The op was asking for comments on the presenter's take on it, not the story. I am at a loss as to why Lass appears to be scolding us for discussing the point raised in the opening post, which is an interesting issue and worth discussing. Why didn't she just start her own thread about the initial incident rather than telling us off for not derailing this one?

Lass, I actually tend to agree with you on a lot of things. But here you're working yourself into a right lather over something that was not widely reported. How were we even supposed to know to google it in the first place if it wasn't reported in the reputable news outlets? It's all getting a bit Rumsfeldian and "unknown unknowns" here.

Now I do know about it I am quite in agreement with you that it's terrible. But what am I supposed to do? What sort of google search do you suggest I conduct on a daily basis? "Unmentioned news items from obscure sources that might possibly cause a feminist to be outraged"? I try to keep on top of the news - hence my subscriptions to the Telegraph and WP, but this one, for reasons I've explained, didn't hit my radar.

And I'm not the OP btw.

Now I know about it, I agree it's appalling - but I repeat, how am I supposed to know about it if I'd have to trawl through the Mail to find it? (I refuse to give Breitbart the clicks)

Of course no one on MN ever sees anything that is reported on the Mail. Yeah right. There is a new thread in the last half hour referring to a Mail article. Mumsnet and FWR seem to have very little difficulty accessing the Daily Mail.

You are also ignoring my point the OP thought it was far more important to alert us that he was criticising feminists than tell us what he was actually talking about.

but I repeat, how am I supposed to know about it if I'd have to trawl through the Mail to find it?

I googled him and got his Facebook take on what happened if you can't bear the taint of the Mail.

I do not agree he is not entitled to be critical of feminism just because he is a man.

I am a woman and I think it is absurd that once this incident has been made known that a poster thinks the most important point is to complain about a man talking about feminism, yet completely ignore the incident he was talking about.

Okay, the incident (assuming it went down as described and I see no reason to doubt that) is appaling. However, I don't read Breitbart because it is not a news outlet, it is a propaganda website which distorts and fabricates news to push its own agenda. Nor do I read the Mail, because it has form for being "economical with the truth" as well. I regularly read the Guardian and Telegraph, and I haven't seen it covered in either of the latter.

Now in a sense the Guardian is as guilty as the Mail of being economical with the truth, particularly when it comes to any clash between women's rights and what it perceives as the risk of inflaming racism - it will under-report or selectively report to the point where its reporting does become a dangerously misleading distortion of the full picture (for instance its reporting of the attacks on women in Cologne, New Year 2016, where at one point it was understating the number of attacks by a factor of 10 relative to the Telegraph, the Washington Post and the Frankfurter Algemeine). But I haven't seen the Telegraph report this either.

So I'd like to ask how I can get outraged by something that I haven't seen reported by any reputable news outlet? Now I know about it, I agree it's appalling - but I repeat, how am I supposed to know about it if I'd have to trawl through the Mail to find it? (I refuse to give Breitbart the clicks).

Also, what's the betting that this is the classic bait and switch? If white feminists had commented on it, what's the betting someone would have jumped on us for being racist and not sufficiently intersectional, and not understanding different cultural frames of reference.

And taking a story about a Muslim woman being treated badly by Muslim men and turning it into a story about feminists being crap stinks of patriarchy to me

Again shooting the messenger.

He made this comment today -he has been writing about it, and criticising Muslim men since it happened, yet the premise of this thread is to criticise him, without even mentioning the incident. And then to further criticise him for being OTT.

Maybe I'm not very good at Google but he is right- there seems to have been no feminist commentary on this.

So who are the feminist cheer leaders you think should know about this & comment?

If you don't use social media how do you know who has & hasn't commented?

As the OP didn't bother leaving any information about what she was talking about I googled it.

I found his Facebook page and articles on Breitbart , the Mail and The Record and similar. I found nothing from say Berns, Glosswitch, Everyday Sexism.

He cites a story about a 17tr old black Muslim girl who was forced into an apology by Muslim fundentalist men online for being filmed dancing in the streets (twerking) while wearing a hijab

The OP made no comment on or link to the incident- as if his making a criticism of feminism is more worthy of comment than the actual incident he was talking about.

He suggests that no feminist outlet commented on the story

And, given the Google results I got, he seems to be right- apart from this one which is more concerned in criticising him.

And taking a story about a Muslim woman being treated badly by Muslim men and turning it into a story about feminists being crap stinks of patriarchy to me.

Indeed, indeed.

He doesn't get to tell women how to feminism. He can fight patriarchy himself, and do it better than feminism, if he wants to.

Perhaps feminists are focusing on "first world issues" because the women in misogynistic shithole countries do not dare be feminists, and feminists from other countries simply do not know what is happening there, because they do not want to travel there, because they do not want to be attacked by Muslim fundamentalist males.

Just a thought.

So who are the feminist cheer leaders you think should know about this & comment? If you don't use social media how do you know who has & hasn't commented?