Walking a woman home

This is a decision for them isn't it. There is the chance of appalling violence happening to women and men, even couples. There is no choice that can keep us completely safe.
And actually as a woman I have always walked home alone, worked in a city centre until the early hours for years (from 16) and just last Friday did a couple of miles at 2am. I have never let anyone walk me home, dont like company when I walk the dog at night and whilst I might regret it if something awful happened that's true of so much like the trip to Asda I sent DH on that wrote off his car and fucked his neck.
Everyone should set their own limits and no woman should feel like making choices like this either way can be simply categorised as safe and risky.

Well aren't you a charmer :)

Oh, hang on, sorry, you were trying to make out that I'm lying. Because women lie about this kind of stuff, yeah?

What the hell?
No, not at all. I said I'm surprised. Interpret that as an accusation of lying if you will, but it isn't at all.

Deydo... really? Packed Northern Line trains in the 80's?

Oh, hang on, sorry, you were trying to make out that I'm lying. Because women lie about this kind of stuff, yeah?

As you were.

Boys of that age are actually at quite a risk alone in the streets. I don't have stats but there are a lot of muggings at that age.

Tbh I'd make sure mine had money for a taxi.

The street harassment didn't stop me (that happened just as much at day as at night anyway) but being followed by some very aggressive and intimidating men at 4am who I was lucky to get away from did (I ran and hid behind a van and watched them slowly drive up and down looking for me until they gave up. They had a really nasty vibe and it was terrifying).

I had that too. I was walking home from a friends house around midnight and a man in a white van played cat and mouse with me down a deserted road for about 5 minutes (it felt much longer). With hindsight I think he was just getting off on the thrill of frightening a lone teenage girl, because if he'd wanted to grab me he had every opportunity.

And unfortunately on another occasion shortly after that I was grabbed, while walking home from an evening stock-take at my weekend job. I was 17. And I know from various conversations over the years that I was not an isolated case.

And that's why I hate the sort of mental wanking I read on threads like this.

Is the expectation that he will walk her home emphasising the view that women need to be looked after by men?

No, it is reacting to the very real situation that women are at risk from men when on their own, on the streets.

My own feminist upbringing had me thinking "these streets are mine just as much as any man's, I'm not going to be stopped from walking down them"

The street harassment didn't stop me (that happened just as much at day as at night anyway) but being followed by some very aggressive and intimidating men at 4am who I was lucky to get away from did (I ran and hid behind a van and watched them slowly drive up and down looking for me until they gave up. They had a really nasty vibe and it was terrifying).

My BF had offered to walk me home but he was tired and I said "don't be silly, I can walk from here, it's only 5 minutes"

I hate to think what would have happened if they'd caught me.
Yes we should be able to walk down the street late at night, without fear of harassment. Until that point, I'll accept offers of walks home.

It's not anti-feminist, it's survival.

By the way, this had nothing to do with sexual harassment, I was harassed day and night living in London as a 20 something, men in vans, men on the street commenting.

My male friends always walked me home when I was in my late teens, early twenties. I think it really cemented our friendships, we walked and talked, sometimes they walked a long way out of their way. They were brought up to do this, and I felt very well taken care of, which is I guess the feeling some people feel is demeaning/anti-feminist. Getting everyone home safely was a huge priority in my friendship group, either by walking in groups, getting a taxi and calling (one ring) once the last person was home safely. Same when I lived alone in London as I did for over a decade, if out with friends, we would call to say 'home safe'. I did used to walk home by myself from the Tube, but it was a bit more of a run, and on one occasion I was followed and had to do a long running detour as someone hid behind a wall to jump out on me (I saw through the bricks, he wasn't the brightest luckily).

I think teaching everyone to take care of each other is the way forward, I have such fond memories of walking with my male friends and got to know them so well on those walks I can't bring myself to condemn their behaviour in any way and I would encourage my children to be equally caring of their friends on a night out: no-one left behind, everyone checked to see if they are safe (even if they went off with some guy/woman) that night, next morning.

I'm as surprised that pickle's DH has never seen gendered violence on public transport as I am that Xeno sees it on almost every journey!

I've walked boyfriends home to spend more time with them. I've been walked home to have more time spent with me, because they were worried (I lived in a rough area as a student) because they were predatory (I had an inkling, but a friend warning me confirmed it), and because they were well-meaning but patronising (assured him I would be fine, I'd done it hundreds of times, and there was no point him walking 30 mins out of his way for nothing), oh, and because they were hopeful (turned round and told me he was going back to the bar since I wasn't planning to do any more than kiss).

My sons, well, I would prefer that they paid for cabs(although there's a risk there too)/called me for a lift once they're old enough than put themselves, or their friends in unreasonable danger. I would be proud of them for standing up for those smaller/weaker and for making sensible risk assessments though.

Dervel

Of course, what you or anybody else chooses to do is perfectly up to you or them. But, there's just no reason why anybody should be expected to offer themselves up as a shield against violence, (unless that's what they choose to do for a living of course).

I'm a man and I'll often try to walk women home if required, or more often nowadays a lift. The crucial element is to make the offer in as innoucous a fashion as possible, so this might involve making a general offer to everyone after a night out "anyone need a lift home?", but making that offer open to everyone.

My reasoning is if anything untoward happened to anyone in my orbit I'd feel terrible, so honestly it's as much about me as anything else. I am 6ft tall and reasonably well built so I don't usually cop any flak when I'm out and about, and whilst I did get stabbed once (and I got very lucky in that I got only a very minor injury) as a teenager although I avoid violence at every opportunity I'm not particularly phased by it.

However, and I think this point is crucial the sort of people who go rushing into potentially dangerous situations to help other people are uncommon, and gender is by no means a predictor. I think we do women a disservice here as evidenced by this study here:

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/15222859/

What this 2004 study indicates that in lots of occasions women may actually be more brave than men are, but men are more likely to get medals or recognition for such behaviour. I think this is an important point as I think this men need to protect women narrative is inaccurate as I think women do a lot more protecting of themselves and others than they are given credit for.

I've known a fair few women who are perfectly capable. On one occasion I rushed out onto a street upon hearing a woman's scream. A man was was attacking her and she was in the process of effectively fighting him off by whacking him with her umbrella. I'm not sure I made a massive difference to that episode, besides giving him a little extra incentive to run off.

I won't be encouraging my little boy to think in terms of having to protect women. However I will be raising him to know there are violent people, more usually they will be men, and there is everyone else. People in the everyone else category need to work together to keep one another safe and the gender in that group is irrelevant. This framing that women need to come to us for protection is innacurate and wrong.

IAmAmy you are having a hard time. Anniversaries are always distressing and bring painful memories to the surface.

I am not going to respond further as you are obviously in pain and I don't think any form of discussion will help.

Once again for your friend.

I read that before I read your threat to report me for sending you private messages about this thread and your comments in it. I'm responding here because you said you'd report me if I sent another one which rather makes it difficult for me to feel your last post here was meant. Anyway, I've asked for my last two posts here to be removed as I've derailed the thread and allowed it to get to me far more than I should have.

IAmAmy please do not misrepresent what I have said. I have never said or implied any of the things you accuse me of.

I am very sorry for the loss of your friend.

IME whoever is most vulnerable is walked home, so most commonly that's a woman being walked home by a man.

But I've walked a male friend home because I was sober and he very much wasn't.

Very true Evergreen, most of the stuff that happens on commuter trains is sexual violence, whereas the stuff that happens in the evenings is more likely to be harassment/intimidation.

Do you think your DH means something different from you by "violence" pickle? If he's thinking attacks where someone is physically injured i could believe he's not seen that. Unlikely he'd not ever have noticed harassment or intimidation though unless he has his eyes closed. Though I've seen a lot more in the evenings than on commuter trains.

Blimey Pickle, does your DH use public transport with his eyes closed? Or is he merely so used to seeing it that he no longer notices do you think?

Not criticising your DH btw, but I don't think in all my years of commuting there many journeys where I didn't see or experience some form of gendered violence.

Tried to have a conversation about this with DH. Didn't go well... He has never (well once) seen gendered violence, apparently, despite high levels of public transport usage. So it's not a big problem.