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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie is also Spartacus

155 replies

IamalsoSpartacus · 10/03/2017 19:22

She's just been interviewed on C4 news and has said essentially the same as Jenni Murray.

OP posts:
MorrisZapp · 11/03/2017 09:00

Bloody glad to see it. Some of the comments are utterly dispiriting though. America will never reach 'peak trans', vast numbers of kind, caring liberals truly believe that transwomen are women. The only voice opposing it is the Christian right.

EatSpamAmandaLamb · 11/03/2017 08:53

I'm glad she hasn't back peddled.
Of course our experiences are different. I'm unable to experience what it is like to grow up as a man, a trans woman, a lesbian, a gay man, a black person, a Muslim and not all of those are biological categories and pure facts of birth.
If trans activists are going to hammer home that women have no right to have an opinion on trans issues then surely that reinforces the point that there ARE differences?

Why can't they understand that differences are as important as similarities?

Of course transwomen experience discrimination and it isn't fair - I don't want anyone to be discriminated in any way. However women are discriminated against too but for different reasons. It is valid that we say our fight is different. We can support each other (as humans against shitty behaviour) but notice differences. Why lay this "my sexism is worse than your sexism" bullshit at our feet and make us deal with it? Why does feminism now need to encompass everything? Why do women always have to deal with other people's issues before their own? When do we get a go at fighting for our own issues without being told we are wrong?
I can never understand what it is like to be trans and deal with what must be some horrible issues but equally they can never understand what it is like to be born female and face the burden that goes with it.

This whole situation is a bit like being in a relationship and one party saying well "we have a bit in common but not really enough for it to be beneficial to stay together. I still want to be friends and help you out and support your career but I don't want to live together and be equal partners." But the other saying "no, we are in a relationship , you saying we are not a couple is not true, we are one, there is no denying it. Your struggles in your life and career are exactly the same as mine even though we come from different backgrounds and have different political view points. We ARE one. You saying we are not a couple even though I hate you and everything you experience and live through is violence."

woman12345 · 11/03/2017 08:48

Her book 'Purple Hibiscus' is a great allegory of male oppression and fascism, very relevant right now. Great writer.

LaContessaDiPlump · 11/03/2017 08:35

Here is her FB post this morning:

'Of course trans women are part of feminism.

I do not believe that the experience of a trans woman is the same as that of a person born female. I do not believe that, say, a person who has lived in the world as a man for 30 years experiences gender in the same way as a person female since birth.

Gender matters because of socialization. And our socialization shapes how we occupy our space in the world.

To say this is not to exclude trans women from Feminism or to suggest that trans issues are not feminist issues or to diminish the violence they experience - a violence that is pure misogyny.

But simply to say that acknowledging differences and being supportive are not mutually exclusive. And that there is space in feminism for different experiences.'

Lots of annoyed responses on her page, but I completely agree.

JeNeSuisPasVotreMiel · 11/03/2017 08:21

I think she's great. I've not heard of her before. All power to her.

Fauchelevent · 11/03/2017 08:13

I dunno, I doubt its the turning point. People are in too deep right now. I think she'll be written off as a terf and dumped onto the pile. In her place will go Laverne Cox and anyone else who will toe the line.

wrappedupinmyselflikeaspool · 11/03/2017 08:07

This is great. I think she doesn't take any s**t from anyone so she will be fine. As someone said earlier she is intersectional feminisms poster girl. I wonder if this is it? You know, are we finally at the turning point that so many of us have been waiting for ? God I hope so, I feel like I'm going mad.

damnedgrubble · 11/03/2017 07:27

Thank goodness for common sense.

Oswin · 11/03/2017 04:05

About to lose my shit on those cb comments.

Transwomen are biologically women anyway apparently. Fucks sake.

TanteRose · 11/03/2017 03:15

*a

TanteRose · 11/03/2017 03:15

She's an amazing woman and an brilliant writer

TanteRose · 11/03/2017 03:14
Smile
BevGoldbergsSister · 11/03/2017 03:10

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

nooka · 11/03/2017 02:58

I heard a great interview with her on the radio and thought she was a very thoughtful person. I thought I might buy one of her books for dd and me to read, and now I have an extra reason to support her.

Yes, transwomen are transwomen and women are women.

EatSpamAmandaLamb · 11/03/2017 01:45

The way this is going I can see a time where funding for women's health will be divided up and a huge chunk will be directed towards traditional male illnesses treated on previously female only wards. As there are so many more male to trans in comparison to female to trans women's healthcare will be impacted hugely. Born women will lose out and will not be allowed to argue back.

EatSpamAmandaLamb · 11/03/2017 01:41

Good for her!
The comments on that FB post are a real shit show, wow.

Lots saying cis women should shut up about not talk about gender issues at all we can not discuss anything pertaining to trans. Lots of "cis women are this, cis women (I have a huge issues with that term - even had a bit of a barney with someone in the pub about it this evening) are that." They tell us constantly how we think, how to behave, what to do, what not to do and we can't comment on the elements of trans activism that we find damaging, threatening and dangerous to a group of people who have been oppressed and marginalise for their entire life and the entirety of written history?

Why do so many people want to identify as women if they hate the people who already are women? Why do they want to be women if they hate the realities of it i.e. someone always telling us to sit down, shut up and listen and why we are always wrong.

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 10/03/2017 23:36

I've jumped in and commented on the FB thread. Done a lot of "liking" too.

QuentinSummers · 10/03/2017 23:08

I need to stop reading the comments or I'll reply and I'm not "out" on FB
Someone has said there is not on thing that cis women go through that trans women do not!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Shock Shock
Really? REALLY?
Childbirth? Periods? Gynaecological exams? Menopause? Hormonal contraception? Getting accused of everything being related to your hormones? Uterine and ovarian cancer? Mammograms? Smear tests? Fanny farts? Stress incontinence? Getting judged on your motherhood or not status? Not being able to access abortion in many places? FGM? Getting aborted or abandoned at birth for having a vulva?
GRRRRRRRRRRR

quencher · 10/03/2017 22:56

I have always loved her because she is straight forward and not afraid to say what she believes in and how.
I find her very funny too.

QuentinSummers · 10/03/2017 22:33

I'm so pleased about this! She is so measured and phrased her point so well.
The comments on the Facebook article are a total dogs dinner. Cis people can't talk for trans people because they are different, yet trans women are women how dare you say they are different? Confused
Also all the love for Janet Mock is annoying. Janet Mock calls women "fish". If there was a trans word for TERF she would be it. I need to think of an acronym for people who believe vagina havers aren't real women Grin

Fauchelevent · 10/03/2017 21:26

Oh shit. Chimamanda is intersectional feminisms poster girl!! Ready and waiting for the virtue signals to come out in full force denouncing her as an evil disgusting terf who needs to go into a hole (or worse) and how theyre sooo disappointed in her. The comments that trans women have never ever lived as men or had male privilege are so deluded. One person said "we do suffer misogyny we're abused as children for being too feminine"... so that would be because you were not conforming to the gender roles expected of men, not misogyny. women dont go through abuse for being too feminine. We go through abuse for being women.

Meanwhile i think i ought to pay her more attention...

DJBaggySmalls · 10/03/2017 21:17

Thank you Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie Star
Isnt that what Jenni Murray said?

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 10/03/2017 21:16

She was a legend already, this is wonderful.

ageingrunner · 10/03/2017 21:12

I feel so sad and angry that she's going to get a load of rape and death threats now

TheQuestingVole · 10/03/2017 20:48

Cathy Newman looked like she was sucking on a lemon.