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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Supporting trans rights and feminism

57 replies

WarwickDavisAsPlates · 09/03/2017 12:16

Are these two ideas mutually exclusive?

I've been reading a lot of trans threads on here that have really left me feeling quite confused. Most women on MN say that trans rights is erasing women's rights and they don't want unisex bathrooms etc... I always thought I supported trans rights and feminism but since reading threads on here I'm starting to feel more like its one or the other.

Is there any way to support both?

OP posts:
Datun · 09/03/2017 13:05

Can anyone tell me what are the rights that trans-people are fighting for?

As far as I am aware the only one is to be legally identified as the opposite sex. And then everything else stems from that.

They are already protected under discrimination law from being fired at work, etc.

What else is there?

OutComeTheWolves · 09/03/2017 13:04

I've found this a tricky one. I firmly believe that a person can identify as whatever they want/call themselves whatever they want/dress However they want. I also firmly believe that trans people should be protected from bullying and discrimination in all forms.

However I feel like a lot of the trans activists' rhetoric stifles open debate in that you either agree with them or are transphobic.

Take for example the issue of transwomen in sport. One one hand I completely agree that they should be able to play the sport they love but also sports such as boxing and rugby make it quite dangerous for a person who was born a woman to play against someone with the strength of a man. There's also the added issue of raised testosterone levels giving people an advantage in certain spots too. And one person's rights shouldn't trump another's.

I don't actually know any trans people in real life so I don't know if what the trans activists are calling for is normal for most teams people or if it's at the extreme end of the spectrum.

I feel like they should create a group of maybe ten moderate trans people and ten moderate feminists, a real middle of the road group of fence sitters, and lock them in a room to discuss all the key issues. Once they've reached a consensus on everything, they can come out and tell us all what the craic is.

scallopsrgreat · 09/03/2017 13:01

Trans (and queer thinking) upholds gender stereotypes and therefore the hierarchy of gender. Feminism (especially radical feminism) wants to eradicate gender.

So they are in opposition.

It is much more than which bathrooms are being used. It is about supporting an oppressive structure.

SomeDyke · 09/03/2017 12:52

I've just seen this story:

gay pride flag hidden!

which certainly seems to indicate that gay and lesbian pride isn't compatible (or at best can be discretely hidden) because of trans rights.

And this isn't the first such case, a previous case involved a transwoman burning a gay pride flag because gay pride made people more aware of trans people, hence they were more likely to recognize a transwoman as trans, supposedly, rather than just an 'unlucky' or 'ugly' woman............(don't blame me, I didn't come up with that 'argument' as to why gay pride and gay visibility is supposedly a bad thing.

DJBaggySmalls · 09/03/2017 12:47

I support trans rights and think there should be 3 options for spaces, male, female and unisex.
Plus women should have the right to ask for female staff without being labelled a bigot. For example, a self identifying man should not be able to enter the women only are in a mosque.

I think one of the real issues is that of male violence, which is on the increase. That concern is something we have in common. But it isnt being addressed by anyone.

ChocChocPorridge · 09/03/2017 12:26

they don't want unisex bathrooms etc

I've only read support for unisex bathrooms, as long as they're not made by declaring the women's bathroom unisex, but instead are separate.

Similarly, I think we're all for trans rights - just as long as they don't trample on women's rights (eg. for sex segregated changing rooms), and as long as it's understood that we are focussed on fighting for women's rights and are completely at liberty to do that without having to centre other peoples rights before we get onto our own.

drwitch · 09/03/2017 12:25

Yes you can support the idea that the shape of your genitals at birth should not influence how you are treated, the expectations placed on you by others, what kind of behaviour, dress and activities you are allowed to do. You can support the idea that "femininity" and "masculinity" are social constructs and not fundamentally shaped by whether you possess a penis or not. This is what (I think) we have in common
I think the difference lies in that feminists tend to have push for external change (less pigeon holing overall) while the trans view is that people should be able to chose their own pigeon hole

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